Posted on 07/12/2013 6:17:38 AM PDT by thackney
Propane would not be much dollar savings.
Propane contains 92,500 BTUs per gallon.
Gasoline contains 125,000 BTUs per gallon.
So Propane at $2.59 per gallon delivers energy at the same price as gasoline at $3.50 per gallon.
Well then, there you go.
“If natural gas is cheap, viable energy alternative the misanthropic eco-nuts will find a way to stop it through a little “scientific” sleight-of-hand.”
I have investigated, numerous times, converting my vehicles to dual fuel (which makes the most sense until most gas stations have NG pumps) but if you look at how the EPA has deliberately made certifying such systems almost impossible you realize the EPA is working against us.
Every engine AND model combination must go through 10s of thousands of miles (100s of thousands for certain tests) of testing regardless of the fact it is the same engine but just in a different body.
If you are fortunate enough to have an engine/body style that the EPA has reluctantly certified then there are kits available for gasoline/NG dual fuel use.
The EPA does not want an alternative to oil that still produces some about of pollution even it is vastly superior pollution wise.
We have all the proof we need to know the EPA is an economic terrorist organization working against all of us by simply looking at what they are doing with the VW diesel engine manufactured in the USA but rendered, by the EPA, illegal to be sold in the USA. This engine, in Europe gets 70+ MPG.
The EPA using the greatest dishonest tool used by every lawyer, a half truth, prevents this engine being sold in the USA. The engine DOES produce SLIGHTLY more pollution per gallon HOWEVER, because it gets such great mileage the pollution per mile is much LOWER than any diesel engine in the USA.
The EPA wants to kill the auto industry and bring the USA down as there is not a single lawyer in the world can figure out how to elevate other people so the only solution is to destroy the successful.
The EPA and IRS should be among the first targets for those who want to get this government returned to the restrictions imposed by the Founders.
Those charts clearly point out that natgas vehicles have taken off ONLY in countries where there is government support for the concept. That Figure 12 chart shows that N. America has been flat lined for 20 years. Without federal government support, the VERY EXPENSIVE conversion of vehicles from diesel or gasoline to natgas will continue in the USA v e r y v e r y s l o w l y. We will wind up exporting our tremendous natgas supply to other countries who are wisely making the conversion to cleaner, cheaper fuel while we continue to import expensive foreign oil from countries that hate us.
Where I live in Pennsylvania that is changing. There are a few small companies that will convert a gasoline only engine to dual use for about $4,000. The vehicle will switch from one to another automatically and is EPA OK. A company called Sheetz has many filling stations throughout the region and they are in the process of adding CNG to their choice of fuels. Not a big jump, since they also sell propane gas for grills and such.
Any talk of required road taxes need to be paid?
Some folks that went to their own bio-diesel have been burned this way before.
Did you do this conversion yourself? Was it a kit you bought? Any info would be appreciated.
After Hurricane Ike outside of Houston we went 5 days without power. By the 4th day, it was getting real tough to get gasoline.
“WPRT has been a range bound trade for a couple years now.”
That is a pretty big range, @22-52 in the past year.
I may have ‘free gas’ on the farm soon when they finally get to my area to frack (within 2 years). It would be nice to be able to fill up a vehicle to zip around the farm. Anything over my free allocation is still very cheap since the price is at the well head. I might consider getting a car/truck and filling it at the farm. I wonder if that is possible.
Did it myself with a kit. You can get a lot of info by rooting around their site. Should you call, the people there are VERY helpfull
http://www.propane-generators.com/
Thanks
Do your homework first before spending money to set up a filling connection.
Wellhead gas can be a very different quality and composition than the pipeline quality gas that is sold to residences and businesses. There is a reason all those gas processing plants get built.
It might be fine as is. You might destroy an engine. You might do worse.
Like I said earlier, “it works.” HOWEVER, I haven’t needed to use it for any length of time yet as was the case last year.
Just a thought, since I won’t have to worry about re-fueling the gen, I’m gonna need some sort of reminder to shut down and change oil at the recommended intervals.
I have old leases on my ranch that give us free gas for use in heating a rather large chicken-raising outfit.
1. Gas does vary, even from the same well. It also has no smell, except H2S, which, if you smell (rotten eggs), run the f—k away because you are about to die.
2. You will inevitably get liquids and solids in the process. The liquids are things like propane, natural gasoline, etc, and have value, but pretty much just need to be added to the tank battery because you won’t be able to market them, and the oil company can. They also blow up and clog crap up.
3. Recently, at least where our ranch is, the state has all-but outlawed free gas and you have to meter it and pay severance taxes on it and a whole host of crap that would make a new installation questionable, at best.
4. I am a fan of liquified natural gas, in general, especially in fleet vehicles. It’s cheaper and you can often dodge upwards of a $1/gallon of tax on it. We use it in certain of our big rigs (I own a drilling company and service company). They pretty much drive in a loop and come back to the yard to be re-filled. This works very well and when diesel was so high, I was saving $2,50/g — and now it’s $1.50, but still worth it.
For an individual vehicle? Probably not.
You can smell H2S up to a point, then you lose the ability to detect it. Tough on any carbon steel piping system as well.
http://www.safetydirectory.com/hazardous_substances/hydrogen_sulfide/fact_sheet.htm
Hydrogen sulfide has a very low odor threshold, with its smell being easily perceptible at concentrations well below 1 part per million (ppm) in air. The odor increases as the gas becomes more concentrated, with the strong rotten egg smell recognisable up to 30 ppm. Above this level, the gas is reported to have a sickeningly sweet odor up to around 100 ppm. However, at concentrations above 100 ppm, a person’s ability to detect the gas is affected by rapid temporary paralysis of the olfactory nerves in the nose, leading to a loss of the sense of smell. This means that the gas can be present at dangerously high concentrations, with no perceivable odor.
You folks are good(informed). What about the gas that comes to our homes? Can’t that be a source?
No, there are scrubbers to take H2S out before it gets to the end-use pipeline, plus an additional chemical to give (gas you use) a smell that you recognize.
Frequently you will see big piles of yellow stuff next to a processor. That’s the sulfer by-product
Aside from the safety factor, they also take H2S out because it causes what is called “embrittlement” to the pipes. To over-simplify, hyrdogen atoms break off and float into the steel and make it more like cast iron — brittle, instead of bendy.
I deal with this in drill pipe, and it is why you often see pipe that looks good sitting out in the baking Sun for a couple months -— the heat and light bakes out the H+ and the pipes go back to normal.
You could end up dealing with this on internal pipeing, which makes for fragile connections.
Thackney is very correct re: H2S smell. We have monitors and breathers in the chicken coops for this reason. Buzzer goes off — RUN.
Never happened yet, and won’t, God willing.
I have, however, been on a drilling site where a guy falls down in the cellar (the underground part of a well being drilled) -— he’s dead from H2S. Good buddy goes to help -— and he dies.
My one and only brush with the legal system was testifying in this case about how they all violated their training about masks, alarms, etc.
“According to the IEA, it can cost from $400,000 to $1.7 million to build a compressed-natural-gas filling station, and up to $4 million for a liquefied-natural-gas station. By comparison, a gasoline station costs from $50,000 to $150,000.”
sounds like an opportunity
someone can do, or pay for, the R&D to bring down the cost of installing what’s needed at fueling stations outfitted to supply natural gas for transportation
as for locations, I’d know where I’d start (not sayin)
There are some really good outfits that have lowered that price dramatically in the Midland/Odessa area.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.