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To: Vendome

Vendome, that is an awesome compilation of the state of telecommunications and privacy. thank you!

I had forgotten about Carnivore. we used to discuss that and Echelon here on FR many years ago.


103 posted on 06/16/2013 3:59:57 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: exit82

Unlike Echelon, Carnivore was admitted to and spelled by your government.

I still they are wrong.

They are not gathering information from a “free” service, such as yahoo or gmail.

They are gathering information on services that are owned and paid for by subscribers who own those telephone numbers, email addresses, web addresses, txtng, instant messaging, etc.

The have no right to eavesdrop on any portion of layer of the OSI that is paid for by a company, person or group.

Layer 1: physical layer - this is the keyboard, router and every device on a LAN. It is paid for or leased by the company, person or group. It is real property that has been fully paid for or has a buyout option at the end of a lease.

Layer 2: data link layer - I’m going to simplify this part. This is essentially the routers on a LAN/WAN/MAN. It is paid for or leased by the company, person or group. It is real property that has been fully paid for or has a buyout option at the end of a lease.

Layer 3: network layer - This is the service that provides links from one network to another or egress/ingress and transit to and through another network to reach a distant machine/user. Think PSTN services, ISP, MAN/WAN, Frame Relay, VPN, MPLS, Inmarsat(satellite/earthstation), Gmarsaetc(satellite/earthstation), etc. These are services that are contracted for a period of time and sometimes owned outright. They are service that are rented on a session sometimes as well.

In any case, they are services that are paid for by persons, companies and groups but, essentially it’s like renting a car in some instances or leasing a car. You could also make the analogy using a home.

You maintain a certain “Castle Right” over these services, as they are paid for.

If a cop wanted to enter your home, hotel room or vehicle, which you rent or lease, they are barred without reasonable suspicion or a warrant.

Layer 4: transport layer - This is how traffic is really routed beyond your carrier, which you pay for and is built into their business model, as they pay another provider or have a mutual interest and agreement to enable traffic to flow from, to and through another or mulitiple carriers.

Essentially, your service provider has only so much reach or connections to the various highways. Think phone company as an example. Your local phone company can reach many places in the country but, cannot reach all of them, as it is logistically not possible. So they create agreements with other carriers to enable traffic to transit from the most distant end in their network and then pass it off to another provider and this can be done several times just to get to a distant phone.

There is, in fact, a consortium of the top 5 carriers that enable traffic to transit to and through each others networks for reducing traffic loads, cost to transmit and plain a logical link that wouldn’t exist without the consortium.

It is a paid service by persons, companies and groups. You are still paying for service through a private organization, who may rely on partners to complete transmissions to distant ends and is a closed network that does not transit a government service.

Your right to privacy is still unalienable.

Here think of private plane, jet or commercial plane. They too operate on networks of sorts, hubs and airports that are privately operated.

In any case, they are services that are paid for by persons, companies and groups but, essentially it’s like renting a car in some instances or leasing a car. You could also make the analogy using a home.

You maintain a certain “Castle Right” over these services, as they are paid for.

If a cop wanted to enter your home, hotel room or vehicle, which you rent or lease, they are barred without reasonable suspicion or a warrant.

Layer 5: session layer - , Layer 6: presentation layer - , Layer 7: application layer. Without getting into the weeds, I have compiled them as a simple explanation. These layers are how all the computers in the routing talk to each other. They are owned and leased by service providers who are private entities. They in turn logically, because there is no other way for traffic to be routed, to users who are persons, companies and groups.

They pay for the services and immune to 4th amendment piercing, as far as I am concerned.

Here think of traffic controllers, radar, WAAS and ground crew who direct airplanes to gates or to runways and provide logical timing of planes ingressing and eggressing not only the airport but, the traffic space around it.

In any case all this is paid for by private persons, companies or groups to private businesses in the entire OSI model

In my opinion they are immune to piercings of the 4th amendment and ultimately the 1st.

The government has no part in the creation, implementation, maintenance elements of businesses.


106 posted on 06/16/2013 7:54:27 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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