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To: trebb

“Not nearly as much a traitor as those he exposes. The only real “secrets” he divulged was the scope of the data mining/collection that involved all of us citizens - it was no secret that we were using the methods on the enemy. His Nation is in the habit of betraying the People and he did us a service.”

The programs were instituted by Bush, and portrayed on a PBS episode titles: “The Spy Factory” during Bush

True conservatives must have missed it. Or agreed with it at the time.

I am a national security conservative, and treason is treason, no matter when or why.


67 posted on 06/15/2013 8:09:27 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker
The programs were instituted by Bush, and portrayed on a PBS episode titles: “The Spy Factory” during Bush

That's true. But programs like this are akin to guns. It makes all the difference in the world who's got his finger on the trigger.

The Bush administration restricted their interest to calls between the U.S. and overseas (or between abroad and the U.S.). Understand that a phone call leaving or entering the country is not subject to the 4th Amendment -- any more than your luggage is subject to the 4th Amendment when you are entering or leaving the country.

There is no evidence that the Bush administration sought the metadata on all domestic calls. Yet, the April court order that has been published specifically identifies all domestic phone calls as item (ii) -- phone calls between the U.S. and abroad being item (i).

This particular program and the Patriot Act demonstrate that there is no program and no act of the legislature that Democrats cannot pervert and abuse.

Governments are powerful creatures. Like guns. It's therefore vitally important that we elect people that we can trust with that kind of power.

Smaller governments with less power are to be desired, of course. But, even then, the point holds. Only trustworthy people should be allowed this kind of power.

68 posted on 06/15/2013 8:40:05 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: truth_seeker
The programs were instituted by Bush, and portrayed on a PBS episode titles: “The Spy Factory” during Bush True conservatives must have missed it. Or agreed with it at the time. I am a national security conservative, and treason is treason, no matter when or why.

And the original (and still valid) wording allows specific data gathering with specific prohibitions against a wholesale amassing of data on all the People - as far as we know, Bush didn't abuse it as Obama is.

I'd say it's a much better case for treason against those who instituted the ever expanding intrusions on our privacy. Just because a law says a citizen is wrong doesn't make it a law that should be adhered to regardless of the guise of "National Security". Else, one would have to think all the intrusions on the 2nd Amendment are perfectly fine and that Obama Care is the toots. The government sets up punishments for "crimes", then insulates itself from the punishments. I say that by law, he may be considered a traitor, but by common sense and when looking at the whole picture, he is doing Freedom a service. "National Security" is being relegated to another catch-phrase to allow the government to trample on the Constitution because "it's just so damn important that our Freedoms just don't matter".

76 posted on 06/16/2013 3:24:54 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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