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To: P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl
Would you agree that in the past God has raised up leaders to guide movements of the Spirit, or would you say that movements of the Spirit has resulted in Leaders being raised up?

Within that spiritual movement, I think you come up with one answer. When you try to translate the benefits of that movement to the culture and politics, it seems to get a little hazy.

Hunter summarizes, “Even if we add the minor figures in all of the networks, in all of the civilizations, the total is only 2,700. In sum, between 150 and 3,000 people (a tiny fraction of the roughly 23 billion people living between 600 B.C. and A.D. 1900) framed the major contours of all world civilizations. Clearly, the transformations here were top-down.”

What an amazing piece of information. Imagine that. Culture has been defined since the beginning of time by no more than 3,000 change agents, a tiny fraction of the population.


5 posted on 05/28/2013 7:10:13 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ, and thank you for the probing question!

Would you agree that in the past God has raised up leaders to guide movements of the Spirit, or would you say that movements of the Spirit has resulted in Leaders being raised up?

I would say that God raised up leaders and separately, that the Spirit moves according to His will which may, or may not, comport with the will of the leaders He raised.

Moses' will aligned with God's - mostly but for failure in a few areas he was not allowed into the promised land. Ditto for David who experienced a great deal of trouble when he went against God's will - and the people suffered for it.

I cannot think of an example where John the Baptist's will did not align with God's. Same for the Apostle John and Paul (after being called in power) - though we can see Peter's struggle.

I truly believe Billy Graham was called and submitted to God's will his whole life long. But who knows what struggles he might have had and held close to his chest?

And I am reminded of leaders who were raised according to God's will but themselves were pagan or anti His chosen people, e.g. Pharaoh, Cyrus, Nebuchadnezzar, Pontius Pilate. But they had an important part to play.

Likewise in the present Obama administration I perceive a spiritually perilous wrong-headedness concerning Israel, i.e. empowering her enemies and not standing by her side. And yet all that Israel truly needs is God Himself. Nevertheless, this administration puts the US on the wrong side of God's blessing/curse judgment concerning Israel.

That, and the present administrations empowering of agendas which stand in opposition to the will of God vis-à-vis abortion, atheism and homosexual behavior certainly does not indicate a leader whose will comports with God's.

And yet it may well be God's will to raise a leader "just so" in fulfillment of prophecy perhaps - or perhaps to polarize the Spiritual waters forcing people to choose whether to believe Him or not.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. - Rev 22:11

Either way, Maranatha, Jesus!.

67 posted on 05/28/2013 9:32:48 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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