Rand Paul's presence-and-jobs amnesty -- WITHOUT E-Verify

NumbersUSA.com ^ | March 19, 2013 | Roy Beck

[EternalVigilance]

Notice that the core element of all the efforts by the Left now involve the establishment or improvement of databases on the citizenry. They want them for you to work, to receive medical care, for your retirement, to own a gun, to farm, and they’re even working to establish one to track every student, and everything about every student.

It’s wrong. It’s un-American. The only database they are constitutionally-empowered to possess is the census data every ten years, and that only for the purposes of appropriately dividing up the electoral votes.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Rand Paul is not a POS. I do not agree with any type of amnesty and I disagree with Rand Paul on the immigration issue. That being said I agree with him on virtually all other fronts. What we need to do is get him to see the light and moderate his position on this one issue.

[xzins]

I guess one way to get rid of the problem is to annex Mexico and Canada.

:>)

[muawiyah]

Paul doesn't want the employers to be policemen yet I want employers to be held accountable for improperly hiring illegal aliens ~ maybe even put the death penalty behind that requirement.

Obviously these are irreconcilable positions ~

[Blue Ink]

“The information already exists” is not a logical justification for setting up a system whereby every American must get permission from the government to work, to earn their daily bread.”

Exactly. I’m self-employed, and every few months, I find it enraging that I have to sign yet another declaration that I’m a citizen and present my passport to another private citizen who has no official government function whatsoever.

“All supposedly necessitated because those we elect refuse to fulfill their primary duties.”

Right, and even in the absence of the government doing the job it’s empowered and paid to do, it’s still not on me to determine someone’s legal status. That’s forcing Americans to perform law enforcement functions. How is that even Constitutional?

[SoConPubbie]

I guess one way to get rid of the problem is to annex Mexico and Canada.

I know you're joking, but, that is certainly one way to solve the problem. If we did, we would have a very small border to defend.

Additionally, we'd pick up some natural resources, including lots of oil.

[AuntB]

Rand could have been an inspiration, instead he’s just going to be another sell out republican. Has Norquist got pictures of all these guys with TJ donkeys or what??

[SoConPubbie]

However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty. Add to that the fact that every American will be forced to get permission from the bureaucrats in charge of said database to earn their daily bread and you have something that resembles the Soviet Union more than the United States of America.

EV,

I agree, that in a perfect world, your position is correct and logical. However, we do not live in a perfect world.

Even the founders, when it came to slavery, knew it was wrong, but knew they could not resolve the issue initially, but that it would have to be left to future generations to be solved.

There is only two ways the problem of Illegal Aliens can be solved:

1. Remove them forcibly like Operation Wetback and this will never happen because there is not enough political willpower to get it done.
2. Setup an environment where illegals can't work and they can't get social services. This is where e-Verify comes in unless you know of some other method of identifying them.

Furthermore, if we take your idea to it's logical conclusion we would need to get rid of all Driver's Licenses and Social Security.

Neither of those is going to happen either, though I would really like to end SS and I really don't care to have a Driver's License.

[SoConPubbie]

Paul doesn't want the employers to be policemen yet I want employers to be held accountable for improperly hiring illegal aliens ~ maybe even put the death penalty behind that requirement.

Paul wants a system where there is NO accountability for either the Employers who knowingly have hired Illegals, for the Illegals themselves, or even states that have enabled this scenario.

As such, he is no better than a liberal.

[muawiyah]

Actually, this makes Paul a Mexican coyote ~ and labor broker!

[ex-snook]

Seems Paul does not go for policeman chores like alcohol checks for drunks and young. Cigarettes for the young. Rand can’t distinguish between a good idea and a bad one for government. Juvenile.

[xzins]

President Polk should have kept Mexico when he won it.

[EternalVigilance]

your position is correct and logical

Thanks.

E-Verify is anti-American and unconstitutional to the nth degree. If permission from government is required to earn our daily bread, this free republic is dead.

[AuntB]

“If permission from government is required to earn our daily bread, this free republic is dead. “

That happened with social security.

[EternalVigilance]

SS is unconstitutional as well. But, putting that aside for a moment, this is a giant step beyond SS. You have to get permission from government in order to work and earn your daily bread.

There’s scripture that speaks of such a thing.

[AuntB]

I understand your point. And if the borders were secured properly, we wouldn’t even need to consider it.

[itsahoot]

Ron Paul for president. Woo! Wooo!

[itsahoot]

However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty.

You are kidding right? Ever heard of Social Security numbers, ObamaCare, or driving licenses, or gun permits, or background checks?

[EternalVigilance]

You are kidding right? Ever heard of Social Security numbers, ObamaCare, or driving licenses, or gun permits, or background checks?

Driver's licenses are not federal.

Putting that one aside, you support ObamaCare, and gun permits, and background checks, and the centerpiece of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal?

Please explain how any of those things are in any way conservative.

Please point me to the constitutional grant of authority for them to determine whether or not you can earn your daily bread.

[EternalVigilance]

Notice that the core element of all the efforts by the Left now involve the establishment of, or improvement of, databases on the citizenry. They want them for you to work, to receive medical care, for your retirement, to own a gun, to farm, and they’re even working to establish one to track every student, and everything about every student, from the cradle onward.

It’s wrong. It’s un-American. The only database they are constitutionally-empowered to possess is the census data every ten years, and that only for the purposes of appropriately dividing up the electoral votes and setting the congressional districts.