Skip to comments.The Great DHS Ammunition Stockpile Myth
Posted on 04/05/2013 6:42:29 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot
There are dozens of articles hyping government purchases of ammunition over the last nine months. After spending weeks researching this topic, this is a collection of commonly held myths that are based more on panic than fact.
With the recent release of a letter from the Department of Homeland Security to Senator Coburn, the numbers we calculated independently seem to corroborate the narrative coming from DHS. The concerns surrounding DHS stockpiling ammunition are nothing but more fear-mongering and largely unwarranted. For once, here are the facts to set the record straight:
MYTH: DHS purchased 750 million rounds of several different types of ammunition in August 2012.
FACT: The DHS contract never stated 750 million rounds at any time. It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract. Military Times recently addressed this issue as well.
MYTH: DHS purchased an unprecedented 450 million rounds of .40 S&W 180gr hollow point bullets in 2012.
FACT: This is a standard five year contract that follows a historical purchasing pattern of DHS. Furthermore, it is not an unprecedented purchase by DHS. In fact, it is not even a purchase by DHS but by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
Starting in 2003, orders of 50 million and 225 million .40 S&W hollow point ammunition totaling 275 million rounds were purchased. After the expiration of the five year contracts in 2008, ICE purchased an additional 575 million rounds of .40 S&W hollow point ammunition with two separate orders (200 million and 375 million). Now, with the expiration of the 2008 contract, ICE has ordered a maximum of 450 million rounds over the next five years.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
The growing question: what does DHS need ammo for at all? Defense against whom? All scenarios we’re seeing & deriving target solid American citizens, and seem to ignore sworn enemies of the USA.
You missed the main point of one of my other posts, the governemnt is made up of IDIOTS! These are people who operate on the 'saved or created' math or cutting the rate of growth is a budget cut. This is the same crew that actually says Obama cut spending by 5 Trillion dollars when he increased it by 9 Trillion because he 'could' have increased spending 14 Trillion. They may say they are getting a discount when in reality, if you look at the math they used before, they could be paying twice as much for all we know.
When it all goes up, the bad guys will be using those on dogs and small children.
Well of course the DHS is not interested in saving money. They LIED!!!! They lie because their true reasons for arming up and purchasing full auto assault rifles and thousands of light armored trucks are for the subjegation of the American public. One naive guy at Breitbart does not change that fact. Ostumbles is building his civilian national defense force and if he dries up the ammo market in the process all the better.
1. We The People feel increasingly threatened and know for a fact that this government can no longer be trusted on any matter.
(This deep distrust comes from the massive load of insulting lies and transparent propaganda that We The People have been hammered with over the last 4+ years. Every statistic, every program, every promise, every speech, every press release is a distortion and has zero actual credibility.)
2. See point 1.
“You expect him to explain why DHS needs vehicles it didn’t purchase in the first place?”
Try to keep up. The Marine originally ordered these light armored vehicles. They took delivery of the first 20 or so and they failed left and right. They have a GM engine and transmission. The worse diesel engine that has ever been built by GM. The AC and air purification system is a nightmare and on the test vehicles the Marine Corps got they had a 50% out of service. This was unnacceptable for Asaghanistan war use so the order was cancelled.
Then the company who makes the light armored vehicles tried to sell them to some third world country to get rid of them but that didn’t work out and finally they pawned them off on DHS. So DHS is buying 2717 of them. The good news is they are a POS and will not be very effective.
DManA ~:” nothing but more fear-mongering
Who orchestrating the fear-mongering? What is their motive?
Seems to me these boys are concocting a conspiracy theory in order to puncture a conspiracy theory.”
Exactly ! ...”in order to puncture a conspiracy theory “
Saul Alinskys 12 Rules for Radicals
#1) Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have. Power is derived from 2 main sources money and people.
#3) Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
#9) The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
Georgia Girl 2;mnehring
Georgia Girl 2~:” Well of course the DHS is not interested in saving money. They LIED!!!! “
Why is it that no politician is held accountable /responsible when “They LIED!!!! “ to the American public today ?
Look at the Nixon Presidency
Look at the Clinton Presidency
Now we have Zero ... and the enemedia ~ and they are both complicit !
and now neither has any repercussions ?
I saw on another thread that the Federal Ammunition company says the shelf life of their ammunition is 10 years but I have read other sites that say ammunition from World War II can still be used effectively and safely.
It’s called “step ladder pricing”. On IDIQ contracts everytime you actually make a procurement, the actual quantity procured determines the price per unit. If you buy 1-100 each costs X, if you buy 101-1000 each costs Y, if you buy 1001 to 10000 each costs Z and so on. Sometimes it is more cost effective to procure a bit more than you need because it can actually cost less overall than the total amount for a lower quantity order.
The hidden cost is that for storage. I believe DHS, like the military uses DLA for asset storage (except for three or four smaller depots that FEMA uses for big equipment and emergency housing). DLA charges its clients money to store assets. That is a life cycle cost that needs to be figured in also.
The contract is an IDIQ contract (indeterminate date, indeterminate quantity). Those types of contract usually have a floor quantity (minumim that has to be procured on the contract) and a ceiling quantity (maximum that could be procured on the contract). the floor or base quantity is probably large enough to generate a big discount and there are probably incentives on the pricing in the event that more than the minimum is procured. It is unlikely that they will ever procure the maximum.
Because they DO buy large quantities, even if it is not guaranteed.
You might as well ask why a defense contractor signs a contract to deliver airplanes where the contract doesn’t guarantee any will actually be purchased.
“It is common to train with what you use in the field.”
I guess that’s true with federal law enforcement...but I assure you that was not at all the case in the Army.
“When buying in these quantities, the price difference isnt that great, especially if you only have to deal with the logistics of one type versus separate orders for fmj and hp, shipping to separate locations, storing separately, tracking separately, etc.”
I still don’t buy it. A federal agency would only have to buy actual service ammo (hollow points) once in a blue moon...since it would rarely, if ever, be used. The logistics of using different round for training vs duty aren’t that hard. Again, the Army seems to do it just fine.
And quite frankly, in the last decade, a variety of different law enforcement agencies have sprouted up, and more people in federal agencies like SS are carrying duty weapons...and it seems every agency has its own favorite caliber. They seem to have had no problem whatsoever ordering and storing a half dozen different pistol calibers - so I think they could handle the logistics of not using hollow points for training.
I think this is exactly what it looks like - the federal government cannot concieve of doing more with less, or having less than top of the line. So, they train with hollow points. It is, in my opinion, a foolish waste of the people’s money.
Is that your opinion? Do you have a source other than some blog repeating another blog?
It depends on the chemical composition of the powder and now it is stored. A non corrosive ammunition completely sealed off from the air and other elements can last indefinitely.
If you don’t know where the vehicles are, or who purchased them, how come you are convinced that DHS has them, and purchased them?
“nothing but more fear-mongering”
“Who orchestrating the fear-mongering? What is their motive?”
Democrat strategists would create such a myth to cause the right to appear totally wacked out. It would fit well with their campaign to make Conservatives all “Extremists” in the eyes of the masses. It would blend with their campaign to nudge the Conservatives to form a third party, and become totally irrelevant to the political scene as so many others albeit mostly single issue/focus parties have become.
I do believe it is a credible tactic of the Left’s.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.