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To: mnehring

One of big problems is that conservatives can be good at articulating what they believe but not why they believe it. And at some level conservatives are going to have to ask what exactly is it being defended and why? Also conservatives have to ask some basic philosophical questions about modernity. Some difficult ones like why equality is such an overriding goal of modernity? Is there a good argument against equality?


40 posted on 03/28/2013 4:17:59 PM PDT by garbanzo (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine)
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To: garbanzo

I agree. Frankly, I can’t think of a good direct way to frame it to most people outside the ‘choir’. I have at least gotten several friends away from the liberal position to a libertarian position (I don’t even believe in that position but I wanted to at least bleed the libs a bit) by simply making a statement along the lines of ‘is there anything we can do any more that doesn’t require a government license?’.

I noticed a couple started picking up the ‘get government out of it’ mantra instead of the ‘make it legal’ mantra.

I had a comment I made to a gay friend that got him thinking and I’ve seen him repeat it (he was already libertarian so it fit his thinking.) ‘Do you really want the government keeping lists of who is gay?’

For the masses though who aren’t die-hard Conservatives, I have trouble thinking of a good manipulative argument to contrast what the left has come up with on this one. They have painted our side into a corner marketing wise.


42 posted on 03/28/2013 4:24:32 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: garbanzo

The only argument against the idea of equality is that nature itself is a hierarchial institution. There will always be the dominant who have the natural right to wield power over the weak.

And we all know who made that argument most fervently in the Twentieth Century. He had a Charlie Chaplin mustache.

Oh yeah, and he led his country to ruin and destruction.


43 posted on 03/28/2013 4:28:35 PM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: garbanzo
Is there a good argument against equality?

And that explains the problem precisely. It was never about "equality" in the first place. It was about, in the space of just a few years, the most radical change to civilization since the Bronze Age. A younger, dumber generation doesn't have the perspective yet to see that perhaps not everything that happened before they arrived was without value. Keep in mind... The generation that is now running things watches "The Daily Show" as their ONLY news source.

44 posted on 03/28/2013 4:38:43 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: garbanzo
"One of big problems is that conservatives can be good at articulating what they believe . . ."

No, they're not because they split hairs to the point that the critical points are often lost and that tendency makes them suckers for being led off their message and into ambushes. They also can't resist fighting one another over every shade of every issue large and small rather than agreeing to a truce among conservatives until there's a victory on something they all agree on. In the type of political system the Constitution created people have to be willing to work for things over time. The fascists have been and are still quite willing to be patient while conservatives aren't.

Reagan, Rush, Bill Buckley, these are conservatives who weren't or aren't afraid to spell out what they believe, explain what they believed, and not worry a bit about anyone who doesn't agree with them. Reagan only made it to the Presidency because he knew the ropes well enough to know when to ignore and when to smack down conservatives who were arguing over how to redesign the bandwagon instead of getting on board the Reagan bandwagon.

The day when someone can do what Reagan did is long gone and it was destroyed by the very medium we're using for this discussion. Conservatives refuse to work together to achieve a goal, then work together on the next goal, and so on because doing so requires them to submit to some degree, however minor, of authority. Enough Conservatives basically don't believe in working for the good of the group they're in unless they get to make the rules that the Conservative majority of the population ends up at parity with fascists on a good day, and well behind on most days.

People can form a circle of electronic friends and get all the positive emotional feedback they want. They don't have any emotional need for being part of a winning Party or campaign to feel like they're making a difference. They're completely happy with the illusion that they're making a difference while the society collapses around them due to there being no effective resistance to the fascists. Consequently, conservatives who tend to mind their own business anyway, squabble over what's important and divide into warring camps while the fascists create and then implement one solid propaganda campaign after another and conservatives completely ignore what's going on until it's already too late. Our opponents are effective because they've made people emotionally dependent on being in constant touch with and in total agreement with the group.

How well conservatives communicate is moot at this point and will be until conservatives manage to figure out how to work together instead of taking their toys and going home when they're ticked off. If the radical fascists who took over the democrat party could take that solidly entrenched bunch of nobility on and win, conservatives could take on the entrenched Republican nobility and win.

It's just that conservatives will never do it. I don't know if they don't believe in winning enough to do it or they don't really believe that this country is worth saving, but they don't care one way or the other who runs the country as long as they can hide out from the consequences of not caring.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how conservatives in this country climbing the scaffold without complaint, then putting the rope around their own necks, is an indication that conservatives are good at anything at all much less at getting their message out to anyone, even to one another.

Now, for the bad news. The people who have wormed their way into control of all the agencies and departments are people who idolized the SDS and other radicals. They don't believe anyone is serious about what they believe unless they're willing to both ignore the law and use violence to further their agenda. That's what they're teaching young folks who they know how to attract far better than conservatives do, too. They look at their conservative opponents, reflect on, ???, and how it shows that conservatives are very willing to use violence to further their agenda, and laugh.

I'm afraid we've reached the point that communication skills no longer make any difference with regard to who is in control. If it still does, it won't for much longer because for far too long we've accepted as decent citizens those who only understand violence and force. Conservatives lost the stomach for the sorts of battles it takes to keep a nation free and it's a good bet they don't have the stomach for any other sort of battle, either. After all, getting out and doing all you can do will get you slandered far worse that sitting on the sidelines will because so few people are realists who know all you can do is all you can do.

JMHO

64 posted on 03/29/2013 2:51:19 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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