Ten Neo-Confederate Myths

March 9, 2013 | vanity

[central_va]

But secession itself is the coward's way out.

The only cowards are the Free Republic neo blue bellies that make Nazi's look like open minded liberals.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Like I said, you just don't have the stomach for the hard work of convincing enough of the American people to amend the Constitution to your satisfaction. It was true in 1861 and it's true today.

Tell you what, why don't you run for office on a platform of secession and see how far you get.

[Lee'sGhost]

Nope.

[Lee'sGhost]

No oversight. I refuse to debate neo-comms.

Glad to introduce you to Madison and glad I can help. His comment and position are true. Whether or not the oppression that led to the WBTS met his standard is just matter of opinion.

[rockrr]

If I performed as badly in debates as you do I would “refuse” too LOL.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Whether or not the oppression that led to the WBTS met his standard is just matter of opinion.

Which is the same as saying there's no standard at all.

[x]

Thinking it over, I remembered that there were amphibious operations in the Civil War and that the Union forces were able to move and supply armies by sea. Early on in the war, though, before forces had been built up and trained and ships built or repaired, an attempt could well have been disastrous.

Also, any plan to mount an armada would have been interpreted by many in the Upper South as an invasion and a reason to secede and join the Confederacy. There would have been plenty of incidents and provocations and opportunities for secessionists in those states to swing the conventions or legislatures in their direction.

If somebody today really believes in spite of everything that the Confederacy was right and secession was justified, it's strange that they'd also think that Virginia and the other Upper South states would have resisted the arguments that they find so compelling 150 years later if only those states had been exempted from the call for volunteer regiments. Feelings of regional unity that some feel so intensely today would have been all the stronger in 1861.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Ditto. You've summed up the situation very well.

[0.E.O]

Washington would have DONE exactly as Lee did in the same circumstance. I know it, I know you know it to be true although to admit that truth deflates every reconstructed myth you have been taught about US history.

You're nuts if you really believe that.

But since you like Washington then I do have a quote for you. Whenever I see you claim you love this country but hate the government I'm reminded of what Washington said about people like you: "Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."

[x]

Political passions ran high in Charleston at the time. There was talk of a "Revolution of 1860." It's likely that Davis was afraid that if he didn't act, the South Carolinians would do so on their own and he wouldn't look like much of president and his Confederacy wouldn't look like much of a country.

Of course, if nobody did anything, if a stand-off or "phony war" persisted, the fervor of the moment would wear off and the Confederacy might start to wither away. If Davis made use of the moment with a show of force it would unite his population behind his government and eventually the spreading enthusiasm could sway other states onto his side.

So war -- or action that would likely lead to war -- was very much in Davis's interest at the time. Separating out how much he was the slave of events and larger forces and how much he strove to master or manipulate them isn't easy

________________

Kentuckians had wanted to remain neutral. I don't know how that would have worked or worked out for the two sides. It was Confederate General Leonidas Polk who brought the war into Kentucky. Polk struck without orders and refused to leave in spite of orders to do so. That was a mistake for his side.

If the North had made the first move, it might have strengthened the Confederate supporters in the state. Polk's invasion had the effect of weakening support for his own side in the state. There were a lot of high stakes gambles at the time -- a lot of weighing military against political concerns and choosing to put military thinking first -- but Polk was particularly bad at it.

[0.E.O]

EVERYONE knows the South is the most conservative region in the country.

Says the man from the state that went for Obama. Twice.

[rockrr]

Yea but that was the fault of those other Virginians LOL

[0.E.O]

Yea but that was the fault of those other Virginians LOL

So what's he going to do if the South secedes again but Virginia doesn't go?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

About what he does now: rage impotently on the internet to a dwindling audience that mostly considers him a joke.

[central_va]

Says the man from the state that went for Obama. Twice.

Really? So which region of the USA is more conservative than the South? Idiot.

[central_va]

You're nuts if you really believe that.

You are no student of history if you don't.

[central_va]

Repeal the 17th and Virginia would have two republican senators. The Senate is close but I think we will gain next election.

The Republican Party currently holds the majority in the House of Delegates, and exactly 50% of the Senate (with the ability to break tie votes falling to the Republican Lieutenant Governor).

Ref: wiki

[central_va]

About what he does now: rage impotently on the internet to a dwindling audience that mostly considers him a joke.

Didn't realize I had an audience.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Outside these forums, you don’t.

[rockrr]

Are you kidding?! People come from miles around to point and snicker ;-)

[central_va]

People come from miles around to point and snicker ;-)

That is a non sequitur.