Posted on 03/07/2013 4:27:10 AM PST by MuttTheHoople
President Hugo Chavez died of a massive heart attack after great suffering and inaudibly mouthed his desire to live, the head of Venezuela's presidential guard said late Wednesday.
"He couldn't speak but he said it with his lips ...
'I don't want to die. Please don't let me die,' because he loved his country, he sacrificed himself for his country," Gen. Jose Ornella told The Associated Press.
(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...
Cancer spares no one - christians, non-christian alike. Being a christian does not spare one any suffering on this earth.
He didn’t want to die because the Devil was whispering in his ear.
My distinct pleasure to have you do so. It’s well-worth reading.
First, he was nailed to the cross. Probably not a pleasant experience.
Then, after hanging on the cross for nine hours, he had his legs broken by rods. Also, not very pleasant.
He then hung there until he suffocated. That, also probably didn't feel too good.
So, I'd say he suffered quite a bit before going to paradise.
But, the first thing he did was to ask Christ to remember him, which is to say he asked for forgiveness and it was granted. But, he still had to suffer before receiving his eternal reward.
See my post #67 - except you explained it way better!! Clearly the thief suffered the excrutiating death of crucifixion!! If that doesn’t constitute penance, I don’t what does.
Well we have no idea what we said, thought or did over the last several months. One cannot rule out a fullblown conversion. From his previous statements and actions it seems unlikely. But none of us really knows who goes to heaven or hell.
Also even if one goes to heaven does not preclude them for being held accoutable for their life as mentioned in the Bible. So there are unknown consequences of sin even for those saved. One cannot fully game the system, live like hitler, confess at the end and have zero consequences. I don’t see support in the scripture for such a “gaming the system” model.
meant excruciating
True, but even the thief with his last minute plea joined Jesus in paradise.
Appreciate particularly the backup and Scripture references from stonehouse01. The thief on the cross and the workers in the vineyard can, in my view, be considered penitent. And perhaps there is forgiveness after this life (only one way any of us will ever know).
And yes, we are saved by Christ's sacrifice and our belief in a Triune God. But after our confession and acceptance, are we not called to walk in a better way, even though we never are able to do so very well? I worry these days about the smug self-righteousness of “feel good” Christianity: I'm saved by the Blood, and now I can continue living my consequence-free life, with no atonement for my sins. My get-out-of-jail-free card allows me to do this. Can we afterward commit acts so heinous (e.g., genocide) that we lose our salvation?
A question for the next round.
So, I’d say he suffered quite a bit before going to paradise.
So let’s use your logic. If I get hit by a car, ask God’s forgiveness, and suffer in the street for an hour I’ve probably done enough penance, by your standards. If I jump off a curb see the car coming and call for salvation and I’m killed instantly I’m in trouble.
This shows the idiocy of your skewed theology.
Simple, if you need to do anything for your salvation it means Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. Sorry I don’t worship an incapable God as you seem to.
I'm guessing you have to accept Christ's sacrifice, at the very least.
God knew who we were and what we would become when he called us to be His children. We either are or are not a child of God. I may have failed at times, but I always tried to make my physical father proud of me. I also try to make my spiritual Father proud of me. Like my physical father's love, God's greater love is able to forgive my shortcomings. I doubt that those who would later commit genocide were ever called. However, remember that Paul, who was headed in that direction, was called.
It was imposed on you?
Sorry, I don't get into theological discussions with people who choose to rebut
The most important, and first, component of penance is contrition. But, I would suppose you consider THAT a "filthy rag."
have a nice day.
Idiocy? How about we keep this discussion on a civilized level instead of descending into personal insults?
The most important, and first, component of penance is contrition. But, I would suppose you consider THAT a “filthy rag.”
because he loved his country??
not nearly as much as he loved Cuba
He didn’t want to die, he had so much loot to spend!
According to the Gospels....yes.
According to the Gospels....yes.
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