Replies

I have seen advertisements from local lawyers here in Texas who specialize in creating NFA trusts. If I ever decide to get an NFA item, I will definitely get the assistance of one of these attorneys.

I had my trust done by David Goldman, I found his office through an Internet search. I found him to be highly competent in the area of trusts in general and specifically gun trusts. What follows is an excerpt from the Times article:

"David Goldman, an estate lawyer in Jacksonville who pioneered the use of gun trusts six years ago, said most dealers carried out background checks for restricted firearms... Mr. Goldman, who has prepared several thousand gun trusts and teaches courses on their use, said the trusts have many benefits, like ensuring that firearms were passed on responsibly when an owner dies, keeping them from falling into the wrong hands in a difficult divorce or helping to negotiate moves to other states that might have different gun laws."

“There was never a proper way of dealing with firearms with estate planning and whether beneficiaries were appropriate to receive them,” Mr. Goldman said."

Attorney Goldman gathers your background information and then provides a framework containing the necessary verbiage for a "gun trust". He has a network of Lawyers who practice in other states who "fine tune" the initial trust document to reflect the differences in trust law from state to state. When finished your trust is custom designed for you and the state in which you reside. I recall I paid about $600 for the package but that was some time ago.

Just to be clear though, the Times implies that people using trusts don’t undergo a background check. When you submit the Form 4, (even though you don’t submit finger prints or a photo) I assume the BATFE does the background check before you get approved. I would assume they would also do it for the successor you name as well. After you establish the trust and start to buy multiple NFA items over time, do they conduct the background again for each purchase or only after the first NFA purchase after establishing the trust.

The way an NFA purchase is done follows:
You first contact a licensed dealer of NFA Class III items and determine the items and prices of things you might want.

After you settling on your "wish list" you put them on "layaway" by committing money.

You fill out the ATF Form 4 (available on the Internet at the ATF website) Sections 1, 2, 13, 14, & 15 leaving the dealer portion blank, no mug shot, no fingerprint card, and no LEO sign-off. Sections 13 & 14 are very much like a 4473 asking if you are a "fugitive", an "illegal", under 21, &c. Section 15 asks (Do You) "have a reasonable necessity to possess the machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device described on this application for the following reason(s)" Fill in "add to my gun collection" or some such innocuous statement.

You go to your bank and get a certified check for the excise tax ($200 for automatic, short barreled rifle/shotgun, suppressor, destructive device, & $5 for any other firearm (novelty stuff)) made payable to the Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. You may also use a money order, do NOT use a personal check, it will only delay the processing time for your application. (Can you believe some applicants are so dumb as to try and pass a bum check to the ATF?)

We are almost done, next make a complete copy of your trust documents, signed and sealed by a notary public. You then mail your trust documents, Form 4, and check to your dealer.

Your dealer completes his portion filling in sections 3a, 3b, 3d, & 4 through 12. The dealer then forwards the package complete to the ATF for processing. I do not think that ATF does anything beyond having their legal staff review the trust document for errors and/or omissions of necessary verbiage. At one time processing was about 30 days. Those days are long gone and you could wait as long as 6 months. Check periodically with your dealer as to status as ATF does not notify you when they are finished. ATF notifies the dealer who may or may not call you to come in for a pick-up (it is necessary for you to pick up your item in person, no shipments allowed).

Patience is required throughout the whole process. To answer your questions Re: background checks, I will again excerpt from the Times article:

"Jim Bueermann, the president of the Police Foundation, a research organization in Washington, said...that he was especially concerned about the loophole in A.T.F. regulations that made it possible to buy restricted firearms without a background check and that he thought most Americans would find this shocking. The A.T.F.’s regulations, in fact, exempt trusts from background checks, as noted in the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, known as the White Book, and on the forms for gun sales that dealers file to the agency. (In one publication, its handbook on the National Firearms Act, the agency does say that the trust representative who picks up a restricted firearm at a dealer must have a background check, but that deviates from what the regulations require, the A.T.F. confirmed.)" Ie, the regs say no but they do it anyway, that's the ATF alright!

"Mike Campbell, a spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which enforces firearms regulations, confirmed that under current regulations, background checks were not required for the buying of restricted firearms through trusts. The agency, he added, was aware of the loophole and was reviewing changes to close it."

So, as it stands currently there is no ATF background check of the purchaser of the NFA item(s). That may change but then again it may not. The reason I say that is that when you submit the paperwork to acquire an NFA item you are not buying the item for yourself. You are acting as the Trustee of your gun trust and as such you are an agent of the trust, purchasing items for the trust which is then the owner of said items. The incorporeal Gun Trust is a legal person and is the owner of it's assets. Since it has no physicality, it has no background to check! Saying otherwise would twist the law into a pretzel and stand it on it's ear.

When you drop by your dealer to pick up the new toy, he will have you fill out a 4473 which is routine for "over the counter" sales. For the most part it is done to keep his inventory records and "bound book" up to date. (If there are demonstrable errors or omissions he could loose his FFL.) When you are filling it out he may run you through the NICS background check, some do and some don't. In any event, you should pass as I assume this isn't your first brush with NCIS and you have purchased other guns and completed the check successfully. He will probably stick you another $15 to $20 for the process, don't argue, you are now in possession of goodies to turn your shooting buddies green with envy. Just a word, legally you can not allow them to so much as touch your new toy, what you do in the woods is your business.

I almost forgot, when you are buying NFA items like a short barreled rifle and a suppressor. that's two Form 4s, two $200 checks and probably only one copy of the trust documents. If however, the rifle is select fire, that adds a third Form 4 and another check. Every item is considered separately, not as an assembly. In ATF's eyes every NFA item is a firearm and requires a separate serial number.

Regards,
GtG

PS I'm not a Lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once...

PPS Full auto, the fastest way to turn ammo into pure fun...