Why are there over 800,000 DoD civilians?
One way the military has been able to reduce their numbers has been to turn over a lot of non-combat jobs to civilians, particularly what we in the Navy call "shore duty" billets. For example, go to a typical Navy galley on base. A decade ago it would be staffed by Navy enlisted "Culinary Specialists" cooking up the food. Now it's a bunch of Filipinos manning the grills. Base weapons stations used to be great shore duty for Ordnancemen and Gunner's Mates. Now they're all staffed by retired AO and GM Chiefs. Training squadrons now employ civilian aircraft maintainers (typically retired Navy) rather than enlisted. Base personnel offices are all staffed by civilians as well as the Navy trimmed down their ranks and removed enlisted Yeomans and other admin rates from these jobs. Facilities are maintained and repaired by civilian contractors rather than Seabees. The list goes on and on. Heck, even the gates are manned by civilian security guards rather than Masters at Arms (Navy military police).
I'm sure the other branches are doing the same. The military figured they'd save money on benefits by bringing aboard civilians. I wouldn't be surprised if at the base I work at, civilians outnumber active duty sailors. And now they have to furlough them all.
You’re going to find out when jets are grounded, ships can’t get underway because they can’t get parts or repair instructions, and the military guys can’t get paid because DFAS is shut down. Be careful what you wish for.
4 posted on 2/21/2013 5:42:41 PM by SeaHawkFan: “Why are there over 800,000 DoD civilians?”
Magellan has a point; the question he (and SeaHawkFan) asked does need to be asked.
There are several answers.
1. It is cheaper to hire a civilian than train, equip, and pay a uniformed soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine, especially considering the post-military payments such as the GI Bill for college tuition, medical benefits, and retirement which we, quite correctly, insist that our troops get as a reward for their service after their service.
2. There are many people who, after 20 to 30 years in uniform, can't physically do the work required for a servicemember while deployed but are quite capable of doing most but not all of the work for which they were trained in stateside duties.
Department of Defense civilian employees save tremendous amounts of money. There is no way we could afford to pay for the number of uniformed personnel we had during the draftee eras of World War II, Korean and Vietnam. Uniformed servicemembers back then got lousy pay because they were required to serve due to the draft; today we have to offer pay to people who are willing to die for their country and that is not cheap.
And before people start saying these DoD civilian furloughs will mostly affect retired people who already have pensions, not active duty, don't forget that a large number of DoD civilian employees are military wives who, quite correctly, have spousal preference for hiring.
Full disclosure: I live outside Fort Leonard Wood. My business will be affected by these cuts if they become the “new normal.” Our county over the last decade has changed from being an overwhelmingly Democratic to an overwhelmingly Republican county. The only good thing about these furloughs is we'll have even more local people mad at President Obama and even more of them will jump ship out of the Democratic Party.
Bottom line: Sauropod said it blunter than I would, but he is right:
58 posted on 2/21/2013 9:09:23 PM by sauropod: “You are obviously clueless with respect to the much more complex combat environment today vs 1966, and have no idea what it takes to actually field and develop a major weapons system. Can some cuts be made? Yes. Can they be made to the level you are advocating? No.”
I work for DOD civilians. It takes 10 people to do what it used to take 1. No one holds anyone accountable. If you try to hold someone accountable, you are villified. The incompetence is widespread. The fundamentals have been abandoned, the office of the Inspector General is worthless because they don't have the teeth they used to: there was a day when a "finding" was a major issue. Careers where lost. Present day, not so much. A finding by the IG is a suggestion.
People get hired now by who they know. Credentials mean nothing anymore. There is no integrity in the system.
Lastly, there is nothing and no one in position to turn it around. It will continue to devolve. Sorry for doom and gloom, but that is the way it is.
I work on a base and the increase in civilian employees has been relentless in the past 4 years. Most are absolutely worthless. Many are “retired” officers that didn’t make the cut. I’ve never understood it in this environment and I have attributed it to Obama deliberately bloating the civilian workforce to buy democRat votes.
I work on a base and the increase in civilian employees has been relentless in the past 4 years. Most are absolutely worthless. Many are “retired” officers that didn’t make the cut. I’ve never understood it in this environment and I have attributed it to Obama deliberately bloating the civilian workforce to buy democRat votes.