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To: SnakeDoctor
You’re making laws up that simply do not exist. There is no law regulating how, or with what implements, a President must sign a bill.

Autopens have been in existence since about 1803. Jefferson was known to use one extensively, but NEVER used one to sign a bill into law.

In fact, NO President [until Obama] EVER used one on an official US legislative document.

The consensus of historians is that, in order for a signature to be valid, our forefathers insisted that it be personally scribed on documents - AND USUALLY in front of witnesses.

In 1787, when the Constitution was written, there WAS no autopen, so when the following was written into the Constitution:

... Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it ... If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law ...

This CLEARLY states that the President MUST personally sign it - or wait 10 days for it to become law without his signature.

The Constitution ALSO states that:

... This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land ...

This means that the Constitution controls AS WRITTEN and as the Founders KNEW it to mean.

FORTUNATELY, the Founders provided for revision:

... The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress ...

This means that UNTIL the Constitution is amended, the meaning in the ORIGINAL text controls.

45 posted on 01/03/2013 9:34:09 PM PST by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Lmo56

>> This means that UNTIL the Constitution is amended, the meaning in the ORIGINAL text controls.

True. The original text is silent on signature implements. If you want to outlaw autopens, you need an amendment. The text doesn’t say what you seem to think it does.

Where are you going with this? What is your aim? The founders intent was that a bill be signed by the President to confirm his consent to making it law. Nobody disputes Obama’s consent. Nobody disputes authorization. Nobody disputes his capacity. Nobody disputes that he intended the bill to become law. Nobody disputes anything here. I don’t get your endgame.

What is the purpose in forcing him to put put a low-tech pen-to-paper rather than high-tech pen-to-paper? I really don’t think the founders gave a damn what he used to sign the bill so long as he consented to the bill becoming law.

SnakeDoc


56 posted on 01/04/2013 9:24:51 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Come and take it.)
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