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To: chris37

Citizens don’t need to be police to be effective. Armed citizens defend themselves and third parties every day. A teacher or adminstrator who is competent enough to carry a concealed weapon can defend himself. Others may benefit.

One fights with the weapons he has. I would prefer a firearm. At the ranges within a school room (5 to 15 yards) a handgun is adequate against an AR. The longer sight radius of a rifle gives it an advantage both in aiming precision and energy at range, advantages which are negated in the confines of a classroom. Further, most states restrict handgun ownership to those at least 18 yoa. The pepper spray and knife are available to those so restricted by law from more effective weaponry. Some pepper sprays such as Cold Steel’s Inferno (a targetable foam) can be effective at 5 yards (15 feet). It may be enough to disable the shooter. Even misting pepper sprays can be used as an area denial agent. These tools give defenders options.

However, all of these are unavailable unless one is willing to break the law. Schools are a shining example of the toxic fruit of civilian disarmament, otherwise known as gun control. The state solution is a security officer in every school, when funding permits. A readily available solution which will not cost the state one penny nor need a heavy handed bureaucracy to adminstrate it, is the armed citizen. It’s available tomorrow, if the law would allow it.

Finally your insulting comments are uncalled for. Do you have any defensive firearm training? I have 20 years of private firearms training— defensive handgun, social shotgun, tactical carbine, precision rifle, street survival, tactics and techniques. I’ve trained with both military and police and know what the more conscientious members are capable of (those who endeavor to go above and beyond what the rank and file are satisfied with). I know that mere citizens are equally capable.

You have no skin in the game—you have no children. Your “efforting to defend and protect the treasure of others” is presumptuous and ill-informed.


92 posted on 12/21/2012 6:49:47 PM PST by nonsporting
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To: nonsporting
A teacher or adminstrator who is competent enough to carry a concealed weapon can defend himself. Others may benefit.

Or may not.

One fights with the weapons he has. I would prefer a firearm. At the ranges within a school room (5 to 15 yards) a handgun is adequate against an AR. The longer sight radius of a rifle gives it an advantage both in aiming precision and energy at range, advantages which are negated in the confines of a classroom.

A man armed with an AR patrolling the halls could take out the shooter well before he reached the confines of the classroom, now couldn't he? If the doors and walls of the classrooms were fortified and locked, and the halls patrolled with men armed with rifles, well now...

Some pepper sprays such as Cold Steel’s Inferno (a targetable foam) can be effective at 5 yards (15 feet). It may be enough to disable the shooter. Even misting pepper sprays can be used as an area denial agent. These tools give defenders options.

Sounds to me like you are willing to risk your treasure and the treasure of others for can and may, but I'm not.

A readily available solution which will not cost the state one penny nor need a heavy handed bureaucracy to adminstrate it, is the armed citizen. It’s available tomorrow, if the law would allow it.

Great! I'm all for it, but it's not enough, and I'm not worried about states or their pennies. Security can be provided by the private sector, the schools and those who pay tuition. As far as government schools go...parents are going to need to determine what's imortant...free brainwashing or safe children.

We already know what's important to government, and that's dead children.

Finally your insulting comments are uncalled for. Do you have any defensive firearm training? I have 20 years of private firearms training— defensive handgun, social shotgun, tactical carbine, precision rifle, street survival, tactics and techniques. I’ve trained with both military and police and know what the more conscientious members are capable of (those who endeavor to go above and beyond what the rank and file are satisfied with). I know that mere citizens are equally capable.

You really don't seem that knowledgeable to me. I mean, no offense, Mr. Expert, but why allow the shooter to reach the confines of the classroom when you could have taken him out long before he ever got there? If your only defense are at the treasure itself, then the infiltrator must actually arrive at the treasure before he encounters any defense, and that would be a last line of defense by definition, now wouldn't it?

Furthermore, my insulting comments are absolutely called for, because your solutions are half assed.

You have no skin in the game—you have no children. Your “efforting to defend and protect the treasure of others” is presumptuous and ill-informed.

That's right, I don't, so what? It seems to me that I'm prepared to defend what I don't have better than you are prepared to defend what you do have. But hey, knock yourself out, big dog. You've got all the training and knowledge, so go guard them. Why are you wasting your time talking to me?

93 posted on 12/21/2012 7:54:37 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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