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To: IbJensen
If you are against the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, waterbording, drone strikes, and death lists, we can have a discussion about Lincoln and civil rights. If you're not, though, you accept the basic principle that countries and governments do have a right to protect themselves, so there's not that much to argue about.

Secessionists and Confederates accepted the basic principle as well. Jefferson Davis didn't regard the states in his union as divisible and didn't have much sympathy for minority rights when they undercut his rule. The rights of the African-American minority certainly didn't exist for him.

He didn't stop short of suspending habeus corpus or imprisoning hostile journalists. Davis didn't like it when such tactics were applied to his own supporters in union areas, but he accepted the principle.

Nor were supporters of secession, the Confederacy, and state's rights great opponents of imperialism or great supporters of Indian rights, as the Mexican War and the "Trail of Tears" indicate. Consequently, I suggest giving the whole "Tyrant Lincoln" thing a rest -- at least until we figure out a way around these inconvenient facts.

108 posted on 12/16/2012 10:41:05 AM PST by x
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To: x
If you are against the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, waterbording, drone strikes, and death lists, we can have a discussion about Lincoln and civil rights. If you're not, though, you accept the basic principle that countries and governments do have a right to protect themselves, so there's not that much to argue about.

Secessionists and Confederates accepted the basic principle as well. Jefferson Davis didn't regard the states in his union as divisible and didn't have much sympathy for minority rights when they undercut his rule. The rights of the African-American minority certainly didn't exist for him.

He didn't stop short of suspending habeus corpus or imprisoning hostile journalists. Davis didn't like it when such tactics were applied to his own supporters in union areas, but he accepted the principle.

Nor were supporters of secession, the Confederacy, and state's rights great opponents of imperialism or great supporters of Indian rights, as the Mexican War and the "Trail of Tears" indicate. Consequently, I suggest giving the whole "Tyrant Lincoln" thing a rest -- at least until we figure out a way around these inconvenient facts.

Great post.

As I've said, as descendant of Southern Unionists I have learned and admitted that the Union wasn't lily pure as I'd always thought. But the Confederate apologists don't seem to have the ability. Do they really think the leaders of the Confederacy were supermen without flaws? Maybe. I'd rather think this overreaction is due to a hundred and fifty years of pro-Northern history working itself out, but some of them may actually believe that.

White Southerners are the Blacks of the Right. The Left regards Blacks as something more than human, as virtual avatars of Social Justice without the slightest flaw of our universal human nature. Never mind their rural Southern origins, their Southern speech, their Fundamentalist religion (in style if not in substance), and the fact that most of them if white would be labeled "rubes" and "hicks" (if not "rednecks"). Social Justice looked down and in pity incarnated itself in our world as The Black Man.

For palaeoconservatives Southern Whites fill this same role. White Southerners are without fault. They are "gxds" on earth. The whole point of J*sus coming to earth was to create Medieval Western European civilization of which the Old South was the last outpost. Christianity is all about brandy and cigars on the veranda while the darkies (who are all subversive Marxist scum who shouldn't be here) sing in the background.

I am very Southern in the sense of influenced by the rural Biblical Fundamentalist culture, but I must confess that the feudal society of the plantation South is alien to me.

Come to think of it, these two attitudes are so similar that they should both be in the Democrat party. Certainly I as a Republican would believe no such thing.

113 posted on 12/16/2012 12:45:10 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: x

States have the right to defend themselves against the onorous, monolithic monster known as the central socialist government.

There are lessons to learned in more intelligent reading about the real history of Honest Abe. There are many similarities between what he did and what the current imbecile in the White Hut is doing to the nation and its citizens.

The nation can’t withstand four more years of Bronco Bama’s communist ruination.

He is truly a fool when one considers that the number 57 holds great meaning for him.

Bama says there are 57 states.

Bama bought 57 Christmas trees for the White Hut.

Bama is considering Kerry for SOS, a man who married 57 varieties.


121 posted on 12/17/2012 5:19:29 AM PST by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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