Posted on 12/03/2012 8:24:00 AM PST by Sub-Driver
Republican Doomsday Plan: Cave on Taxes, Vote 'Present'
By Jonathan Karl | ABC OTUS News
Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. It's quite simple: House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more: no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes. Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling.
Two senior Republican elected officials tell me this doomsday plan is becoming the most likely scenario. A top GOP House leadership aide confirms the plan is under consideration, but says Speaker Boehner has made no decision on whether to pursue it.
Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote "present" on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes.
By doing this, Republicans avoid taking blame for tax increases on 98 percent of income tax payers. As one senior Republican in Congress told me, "You don't take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot." Republicans aren't willing to kill the middle class tax cuts, even if extending them alone will make it harder to later extend tax cuts on the wealthy.
Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., an influential conservative House Republican, is already on record supporting extending the middle class tax cuts - with or without the upper income tax cuts. On Sunday, he said Republicans should embrace the extension of the middle class tax cuts and take credit for it.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
This would be excellent. Let the Rats win the battle but the GOP wins the war.
The subject covered by Bill Whittle here in “Episode 20” — along with a lot of other good info.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-stratosphere-lounge
IF, IF Boehner does not go along with the plan, we must call, write, email, hold demonstrations at his office in Ohio, and in Washington....Boehner must HEAR what We the People demand that he do...we have to get in his face if he refuses to listen to phone calls, letters, emails, WHATEVER. He must NOT cave...show him he has OUR support, and show him how We the People will turn on him and his party if they fold ONCE AGAIN...tell them to act like men and women and stand up for the Constitution, Liberty and Freedom..fight the socialists/communists/ in our government and have some courage and respect for the positions they hold and remember how our forefathers handled their business...our forefathers had balls and they loved their country. We the People DEMAND and EXPECT NO LESS from Boehner and the rest.
” This plan sucks, and here’s why...
If a low information voter is going to hold the Republicans responsible for anything, they will continue to hold them responsible, even if they pull this idiotic “voting Present” stunt. There is going to be some Obama giveaway that is too ridiculous for even these lily-livered Republicans to live with, and they will get the blame for turning it down. Because that’s the way it is with low-information voters. If you don’t tell them what you stand for, they will believe whatever your opponent says about you. And there is no better way to not tell them what you stand for than by refusing to even vote.
And your better informed voter who does not favor tax increases will still blame the Republicans because they had the power to stop it and did nothing.
And as for the better informed voter who does favor tax increases, the Republicans are never going to get credit with them, because they worship at the feet of Obama.
So this plan is a LOSE/LOSE/LOSE for Republicans. We give away everything, including any pretense of having a conherent philosophy that we are willing to advance. Why would anybody ever give a Republican the time of day, after we show ourselves to be such unprincipled weasels?”
I repeated your post in hopes all will read it.
If the Republicans all vote "Present," what will the Democrats do?
I maintain the Dems will not want the whole thing on their shoulders.
They will vote "No."
“The GOP has been saying that these increased rates will hurt small businesses and cost over 700,000 jobs. Do we really believe that or is it just meaningless rhetoric?”
You are right, but part of this is to make it to the “next day to fight again” and not let Lucy pull out the football again on Charlie in a stalemate that the other side believes doing nothing is a winning strategy (they get their tax increases and blame the Reps for all bad things).
Actually, I should have made the unemployment rate 6.5% in my proposal, but start the actual negotiation at 6%. Instead of making the tax increase “time-dependent” (expires after so many months) we make it “performance dependent”. i.e. tie it to jobs, after all that is what we are trying to create here. Even Obozo said that when things are bad, we don’t raise taxes. Of course he doesn’t believe what he says, because somebody just writes for him.
BTW there is a good chance that Harry Reid would not even allow it to come up for a vote.
They should just pass an extension of the Bush Tax Cuts for 4 years and go home for Christmas. Let Obama be the one who raises taxes on everyone. Voting present? Typical of them that they would do something that they’ve criticized Obama for doing.
It is not a plan; it is surrender
"We" would be the mass of Republican voters who effectively bullied our Congresscritters to vote unanimously against Obamacare, the Stimulus and Son-of-Stimulous.
"We" would be the pissed-off activists who installed an overwhelming Republican majority in the House of Representatives in 2010.
"We" are the voters who are dead-set against Obamacare, tax increases, crony capitalism and booming deficits. "We" are the voters who elected these Republicans, and now We must insist that they do what we sent them there to do.
And if "We" support this plan to duck responsibility by accepting a vote of "Present" from our Representative, there is no reason to think they will ever take us seriously, ever again.
As things to fear go, the Fiscal Cliff is not that bad. It is not like we're spending a Winter in Valley Forge with no boots. It is not we're staring up at the Union Lines on Seminary Ridge or waiting for the balloon to go up on the Somme. It's not like we're carrying a flag up Mount Suribachi or clearing IEDs in the Red Zone.
We're going to have to pay a little more taxes and we're going to get a little less stuff. Our military will have to do more with less. But if we are willing to take this on firmly, we will establish that we will stand on principle, and there are some places will just will not go, willingly. And this will be the first step in turning the tide.
-— Instead, the House should pass an extension of ALL ratesand nothing else, send that to the senate, then adjourn -—
Yes.
Otherwise, this is the Cave Plan.
If we un-link the tax rates, we have given away all there is to give. What leverage would we have, after that?
And don’t spin me a fairy tale about the Debt Ceiling. Been there, done that. They know we’ll cave there, because have done so in the past, over and over again.
Other advantage, is that it should help stop the perpetuation of the term “Bush tax cuts”.
It moves the focus / link back to jobs and what raising taxes on anyone in a bad economy will do. Average low information person thinks despite Obozo being re-elected, we don’t have jobs.
Remember, if they do nothing more than this, the 2% increase in Soc Security withholding will hit everyone who has a job (going back to its traditional level, 2% holiday expires.) Likewise, the Obamacare tax is coming too and the AMT will still hit millions. If Obama wants it about one issue, let's have at it.
Then the fun will begin with the debt ceiling. 98% won't care anymore, getting their low taxes (well, as Romney noted, 47% don't care, they don't pay fed income taxes) and the GOP will have a little more leverage.
No, because by obstaining, the democrats will vote to raise taxes on the rich only. When the economy tanks, Republicans can say—WE DIDN’T VOTE FOR THAT!
FORCE the DIMS to OWN the economy for the last 4 years and especially the next 4 years
If we un-link the tax rates, we will be left with the Middle Class tax rates, which will sunset, and the Upper Bracket tax rates, which will no longer sunset. So there will no longer be the bi-Annual pas de deux where we get to hold a gun to each other's heads. Instead the Democrats can just come out and say that the eeeeevil rich still aren't paying enough, because we still have deficits, and they can hold a gun to our heads while we stand around with our hands in our pockets, over and over again. The great majority of voters will see that they are getting something for nothing, and will whole-heartedly endorse this approach.
We will have no leverage on spending cuts or entitlement reform. The Democrats will already have everything they want. Why should they deal? (And if somebody says they will deal for the good of the country, I shall fart in his general direction). We will be at the point where the majority of voters are voting themselves money from the Treasury.
And then we will be at the point so well described by that eminent philosopher, Cpl Dwayne Hicks: "That's it man, Game Over man, game over! What the **** are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do? "
The GOP always rationalizes why it is not the best time to fight. We did that during the 2010 lame duck session following our historic victory in the midterms. We decided to just extend the Bush tax cuts for another year rather than make them permanent. We are back in the same place again with the reality that Obama will have another four years. And by the way, the GOP did absolutely nothing in terms of making actual cuts in spending. Is it any wonder why the GOP is called the Stupid Party?
The simple and best answer is to stick to your principles and go down fighting. We either do what is best for the country or not. We are fast becoming a minority party due to demographics and a culture of dependency. Obamacare, another huge entitlement program, will be implemented. But it will usher in more taxes and greater deficits and debt. It is time to draw a line in the sand and tell the public that we can not continue down this road. Hear us now and believe us later. The collapse of the welfare state is inevitable. Now is the time to position ourselves to pick up the pieces.
Imagine that I am a bank teller, and somebody comes to my counter, and asks without any show of force or threat of any kind for me to hand him a thousand dollars. I ask him if this is a robbery, or if something bad will happen if I don't hand him the money, and he says that nothing will happen if I don't, but he just wants a thousand dollars.
If I hand him the money from my drawer, who robbed the bank? Me or him?
We elected a Republican House of Representatives. It is their job to be the Bank Teller. It is time for them to do their job.
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