How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File

The Atlantic ^ | 11/7/2012 | Conor Friedersdorf

[ksen]

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

. . .

It ought to be an eye-opening moment. But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.

[YoungBlackRepublican]

Yep. All we heard was how it was in the bag. That it’d be a landslide blah blah blah. What they did was effectively dull the edge we had. They damped our anxiety and doubt which lead to voter apathy. That and the fact half the damn country doesn’t pay for shit so they vote with their own selfish needs first.

[douginthearmy]

I bought.. ..with my own money.

You didn't build that.

If you would just come out and admit that you were never a conservative, everything else you say would be more credible. We could even debate how conservatives should get their message out.

As it stands, I don't believe you. In fact, I am much more inclined to believe you are Cleverbot, than I am to believe you are a conservative who has become a liberal.

[Political Junkie Too]

Quick questions: Do you think that the Democratic Socialism of Europe would have been possible if the European countries had to bear the cost of national defense themselves? How much of their own GDP would have to be diverted from the social sector if they had to provide for their own defense instead of riding on the backs of the United States since 1945? If we move to a European sort of Democratic Socialism, where would the money come from, national defense cuts? Who would then defend us? Taxing the wealthiest among us? There aren't enough to pay for it all. Nationalize industry and confiscate the profits for the state?

-PJ

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

Too many people see the word revolution and instantly think it only refers to violence. We have several ways to instigate a peaceful revolution which could only become violent if the federal government decided to take that unpopular action. I don't think that would happen. We need to work within our states that still appreciate our Constitution to openly defy unconstitutional laws and mandates, thereby forcing the federal government into a position of granting us our stolen liberty, or ordering federal forces to violently impose their tyrannical powers on us. That wouldn't be a popular decision, and it could very well be ignored, or even resisted if attempted by other federal forces. I don't think it would come to that. I think we could achieve a peaceful revolution this way, and I wish people would see that we have options other than violence that could be successful. Although we must be prepared to face violence once we decide to take this avenue even if we think it's very unlikely. We are in very bad times, and it will take revolutionary sized change to even have a chance at salvaging anything this nation was built on.

[Reverend Wright]

here is a choice quote from this article:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permissiontolive/2012/07/how-i-lost-my-fear-of-universal-health-care.html

“In Canada, the wait times were usually short, and applied to everyone regardless of wealth. If you were discontent with the wait time (and had the money to cover it) you could always travel out of the country to someplace where you could demand a particular service for a price. Personally, I never experienced excessive wait times...”

here are some wait times in Ottawa, the capital of universal health care, i will let freepers decide if these wait times are “excessive”:

http://www.waittimes.net/surgerydi/en/Data.aspx?View=0&Type=0&Modality=2&ModalityType=3&LHIN=11&city=&pc=&dist=0&hosptID=0&str=&period=0&expand=0

http://www.waittimes.net/surgerydi/En/Data.aspx?view=0&Type=0&Modality=5&ModalityType=19&city=ottawa&pc=&dist=0&hosptID=0&str=&period=0&expand=0

http://www.waittimes.net/surgerydi/En/Data.aspx?view=0&Type=0&Modality=4&ModalityType=8&city=ottawa&pc=&dist=0&hosptID=0&str=&period=0&expand=0

http://www.waittimes.net/surgerydi/En/Data.aspx?view=0&Type=0&Modality=8&ModalityType=94&city=ottawa&pc=&dist=0&hosptID=0&str=&period=0&expand=0

oh, and if you want to get a GP, it’s impossible, there are NO Drs in the Ottawa area taking new patients

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/the-soul-destroying-search-for-a-family-doctor/article591331/?service=mobile

socialized medicine doesn’t heal the sick any better then collective farms feed the hungry

[SE Mom]

I’m interested in what you believe income equality means- who is the arbiter and what are the criteria for the value of services provided? If not the free market - which I don’t believe has existed here for a llllong time...then WHO?

[Sivad]

What I learned from the article:

mite = factual

In truth, the MSM is no more factual than FOX, Limbaugh, etc.
What they have going for them is numbers pure and simple.
It also helps that liberalism requires no thinking, just feelings.

I have been a listener of Limbaugh since 1985 and a consumer
of MSM “news” since long before Limbaugh. I would venture
to submit that there wouldn’t be a need for Limbaugh or FNC
if millions of Americans believed that their point of view was
being honestly presented in the MSM.

Truth is not subject to a vote. This country will pay a heavy
price partially because the MSM is more interested in pro-
tecting an incompetent president than working toward what
is right. Would the MSM let a Republican president slide on
the Benghazi “incident” seven weeks before an election?
How about Fast and Furious? Those are just two more
recent examples of many that should bring shame to the
“Fourth Estate”. It should but it won’t.

[RichInOC]

My concern is that to the extent that’s the situation with the conservative media, it’s even more so (albeit in the opposite direction) with the mainstream media. I say, a pox on both. Preferably Clinton-grade STD.

[adorno]

I’ll make up YOUR mind for you.

It’s the liberal media.

I could also blame my three cats, but, that would not make as much sense as blaming the liberal media.

Now, what is your own opinion?

[gypsylea]

There is a grain or two of truth in the article posted and ksen’s initial comment. Take out the spin, and you are left with a large fact— the electorate that showed up looked more like what the polls were finding than what people like Barone were saying would be the case. I like Barone and most of the other commentators the Atlantic writer mentions negatively, but how could they all fall into the same rookie mistake— likely voter party ID is a finding, not a demographic, and you make adjustments for demographics, not findings. Sure there are more problems
in constructing a random sample that plausibly resembles real world demographics than there used to be (cell phones, hang ups, etc.), but once the person that your procedures say you want to talk to is in fact talking to you, and they say they identify with the D’s rather than the R’s, then that answer is not something you adjust for

This is not to be taken as a defense of Nate Silver, since I do not understand his methodology at all, but I do know a little bit about survey research and statistics from graduate school back in the 70’s, enough to have recognized that the state polls were almost universally saying that the 2012 electorate would look a lot more like 2008 than 2004, and that we were in trouble. If I’m smart enough to have figured that out, I can’t believe someone like Karl Rove wasn’t. So, why didn’t they say it?

I am a long time lurker, seldom poster and then only long ago and i’m not a troll. This result is a real blow to freedom. But if the truth is what will make you free, we suffered from a shortage of it. A lot of good people are shell shocked now who wouldn’t be if they had been told that this was going to be a close election with Obama a slight favorite. I hope they recover quickly because the fight has to continue at the local, state and national levels.

[Lazamataz]

I voted libertarian in 2008 and this time I pulled the lever for Obama.

Then you are the enemy.

[ksen]

The problem with income equality and most of your other reasons is, ‘who gets to decide?’

I don't envision a "who" making any kind of decision like this. How did income and productivity move together until the mid-1970's?

Something happened to unhitch those measures. I think there are a few reasons, i.e. disempowering of labor, offshoring of jobs, trade agreements without some sort of wage protection mechanism, etc.

[ksen]

You didn't build that.

I never said I did. I said I bought them. Try to keep up.

If you would just come out and admit that you were never a conservative, everything else you say would be more credible. We could even debate how conservatives should get their message out.

As it stands, I don't believe you. In fact, I am much more inclined to believe you are Cleverbot, than I am to believe you are a conservative who has become a liberal.

Oh well. I don't care if you don't believe me. But if it helps you sleep at night to keep thinking that it's not possible for someone to change their minds about conservatism vs. liberalism go ahead. I suppose you also don't believe that Ron Silver and Christopher Hitchens were really liberals before switching to conservatism either.

[rollo tomasi]

Anecdotal evidence in the form of “routine” medical procedure sure convinced me that stories like your link trump economic reality and growth. Let me know how "your" Patient Protection and Affordability Care Act deals with the complex and demanding need of advance medical care that the United States demographics face. A lot more complex than Canada. Canada is bracing for big changes in the form of other European models

ROTFLMAO, you think way too highly of yourself and your “intellect”. May your inflated ego travel well with your infantile understanding of economics, liberty, and advancement of civilization. Stay shortsighted, gullible, and obtuse, its the European Socialist (Which you advocate) way after all. Also, watch out for the phrase ‘complex diagnostic work-ups’ with your beloved democrat health care crap you admire.

[ksen]

I think I answered your question above but let me know if you need more.

But the short answer is right now in the labor market all the negotiating power, except a in few rare examples, lies with one side. One of the solutions is to help empower the labor side of the labor market so they have more negotiating power. I know that “labor” is a dirty word among conservatives but it shouldn’t be.

[rollo tomasi]

"I think there are a few reasons, i.e. disempowering of labor, offshoring of jobs, trade agreements without some sort of wage protection mechanism, etc."

All promoted by the two "big" political Partys yet you support the Party with the better liars and grifters, way to use your critical thinking skills, sport.

BTW, have no problem with you attacking the Repubs way too much ammo there, but to buy into the the Democrat act is too comical; thanks for serving as a exemplification of the phrase, convoluted temper tantrum.

[ksen]

no u

[ksen]

BTW, have no problem with you attacking the Repubs way too much ammo there, but to buy into the the Democrat act is too comical;

I haven't "bought" into anything. I do, however, believe that of the two major parties, which is what we realistically have to deal with, the democratic party is much closer to what I think than the republican party is. But to be honest with you if I lived in a state where my vote didn't really matter, and by "doesn't matter" I mean not a swing state, I would have voted for Jill Stein.

thanks for serving as a exemplification of the phrase, convoluted temper tantrum.

I think if you read through this thread you'll find that it isn't me throwing a temper tantrum. I think I've been pretty levelheaded and considerate to most of the posters.

[rollo tomasi]

No sport, if your comprehension skills were sharp the “convoluted temper tantrum” meant your "embracement" of the Democrat Party/ strong-central planning bull feces, not your demeanor on this thread.

Hope you stick around for some personnel insight by me, but I don't make the rules around here.

[darrellmaurina]

17 posted on Wed Nov 07 2012 16:26:33 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time) by ansel12: “What are the highlights of what pulled you left?”

I'm also interested, KSen, especially because you're apparently either a Calvinist or a former Calvinist.

For IronJack and shhrubbery!, KSen seems legit. He's been around since the beginning of Free Republic. I do run into ex-conservatives fairly often. I spend a significant amount of time dealing with a couple of such people. Let's not forget that people do sometimes change the wrong way... Hillary was once a Republican, after all, and a Goldwater supporter. That means she was once to the right of Mitt Romney and his father who were Goldwater opponents!

What I don't run into is a lot of self-described political liberals who are theologically conservative, although I do run into a fair number of libertarians in my circles.

I read ksen’s answer, here:

24 posted on Wed Nov 07 2012 16:37:57 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time) by ksen:
“1) still having to use HTML code in @^#$$@# 2012 on a messageboard!!
2) healthcare reform
3) iraq
4) income equality issues
5) civil rights
6) republicans getting way too close to wanting to institute virtual theocracy”

I assume #1 is a joke... but Free Republic seems to do just fine in its stats even with a simple system of input and display. It is consistently ranked as one of the top conservative websites in readership.

I'd be interested in exploring #5 and #6 — i.e., why you believe modern conservatives still have a civil rights problem and why you believe, given the nomination of McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012, that Republicans are dominated by social conservatives. I frankly wish social conservatives were much stronger in the Republican Party.