Replies

(Voting for Virgil Goode)

Virgil Goode is good for the conscience - talk about elitist! You can feel good about yourself and your own ideals and let the country fall to $hit because Romney does not meet a religious standard.

I can dig it.

I didn't answer this one:

Let me guess: You went to a state high school and/or a secular college...where you were taught this double-standard...and accepted it...without critical eval.

You got me wrong. My evaluation is just different than yours. Why should I judge Mormons? Regardless of their beliefs in Jesus Christ or God, they are a moral people. Good enough for a president - bad for a pope. But I'm not voting for a pope.

If Romney were catholic, baptist, amish, methodist, quaker -even a moral atheist, I would be fine with him.

His stance on abortion and immigration does not agree with mine. I vote Romney because by all accounts and appearance, he loves this country and I vote my country. Romney is not first choice, but he is the choice.

Bashing a moral person because of his religion or lack thereof would be true bigotry.

And as for the double standard? It applies to my personal life alone. I do not apply it to politics.

Regarding Romney’s stances on abortion and immigration, I too thought he varied a great deal from me. When he got the nomination, I started researching him more and was happily surprised at the following. He is still not as conservative as I would like, but he is far better than I originally thought.

Governor Romney was presented with legislation concerning life issues on several occasions from the 85% majority Democrat Legislature in Massachusetts. In every instance he took the pro-life position by vetoing bills or lobbying for the pro-life approach, including the following actions:

He vetoed the bill providing state funding for human embryonic stem cell research
(Theo Emery, “Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney Vetoes Stem Cell Bill,” The Associated Press, 5/27/2005)

He vetoed a bill that provided for the “morning after pill” without a prescription because it is an abortifacient and would have been available to minors without parental notification and consent
(Governor Mitt Romney, Op-Ed, “Why I Vetoed Contraception Bill,” The Boston Globe, 7/26/2005)

He pledged to veto any bill that would expand access to RU-486, the abortion pill
(Hugh Hewitt, “Interview with Governor Romney,” The Hugh Hewitt Show, 7/27/2005)

He vetoed legislation which would have redefined Massachusetts longstanding definition of the beginning of human life from fertilization to implantation
(Governor Mitt Romney, Letter To The Massachusetts State Senate And House Of Representatives, 5/12/2005)

He supported parental notification laws and opposed efforts to weaken parental involvement
(John McElhenny, “O’Brien And Romney Spar In Last Debate Before Election,” The Associated Press, 10/29/2002)

He fought to promote abstinence education in public school classrooms with a program offered by faith-based Boston group Healthy Futures to middle school students. Gov. Romney’s administration was the first in Massachusetts to use federal abstinence education funds for classroom programs.
(Office of Gov. Mitt Romney, “Romney Announces Award of Abstinence Education Contract,” Press Release, 4/20/2006)

Governor Romney: “Times of decision are moments of great clarity. Before I was Governor, the life issue was just that, an issue. But when responsibility for life or ending life was placed in my hands, I made the right decision. I chose life.”
(Governor Mitt Romney, Remarks At The National Right To Life Convention Forum, Kansas City, MO, 6/15/2007)

http://web.archive.org/web/20100613154457/http://www.freerepublic.com/~unmarkedpackage/

Why should I judge Mormons?

You call it "judging Mormons"; I call it discerning MormonISM...

If you applied that consistently, you apparently wouldn't discern homosexuality as being problematic because that would be "judging homosexuals." I call it discerning an immoral unhealthy lifestyle that equips our generations to come to not follow that same pathway.

His stance on abortion and immigration does not agree with mine...Bashing a moral person because of his religion or lack thereof would be true bigotry.

You know, Paul Ryan, in the debate, said his view on the sanctity of pre-born children was at least partly informed by his religious worldviews...which means he takes issue -- what you apparently call "bashing" -- with a pro-abortion perspective. I Indeed critique, in part, Romney due to his pro-abortion worldviews and practices. And like Ryan, all that is partly informed by the revelation of the Bible.

You smugly reduce that to bashing due to religious differences.

I also don't think it's very "moral" to call yourself a "god-in-embryo" -- as temple Mormons believe ... (15-20% of all Lds are temple Mormons like Mitt Romney)

In fact, if Sarah Palin announced tomorrow that she was a "god in embryo," the left AND right would descend upon such arrogance and hubris...but because Mitt is a Mormon, he's rec'd a free pass on all this...

Mitt went on record Dec of 07 saying he hasn't turned away from the "faith of his fathers"...Let's take a look about what they say about how temple Mormons are "gods in embryo":

Marion G. Romney -- cousin of Mitt's father -- and in the Lds 'first presidency' at one time

“The truth is … man is a child of God— a God in embryo.” – Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion G. Romney – one of the top three Lds hierarchists a generation ago...in Conference Report, April 1973, p. 136; or Ensign, July 1973, p. 14).

3rd LDS 'prophet' John Taylor

* "What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He IS a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame..." (3rd "prophet" John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, pp. 52-54, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 2, 2001 -- compiled & published by its "intellectual reserve" publishing trademark).
* "If we take man, he is said to have been made in the image of God...being his son, he is, of course, his offspring, an emanation from God...He...came forth possessing, in an embryonic state, ALL the faculties and powers of a God." (Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, p. 52, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 3, 2001).

12th Lds 'prophet' Spencer W. Kimball

Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.

But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"??? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:

1969 "Being a GOD IN EMBRYO with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)

A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)

To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.

September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)

1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a GOD IN EMBRYO. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975

November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine

This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp

Virgil Goode is good for the conscience

(Glad to see you recognize that; and how voting for pro-abort socialist healthcare pioneer "I'm-a-god-in-embryo" liberals isn't exactly "healthy" for the conscience)

You can feel good about yourself and your own ideals and let the country fall...

You see, this is where crystal ball gazers "get me"...as if they are forecasting that the country won't fall in judgment from a God who frowns upon competing gods...and supposed God-fearers who endorse rival gods to THE god.

So...with certainty...I can say...
#1 America will one day fall...
#2 It'll happen whatever colored jersey the PREZ happens to be wearing at that time...
#3 Your sense of altruism is on the heroic side, but no, sorry to rock your unrealistic world, but my single vote isn't going to effect the outcome of the 2012 election...no matter how much one reminds be about the Bush-Gore Florida results...

(I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than for my single vote to make a real difference, electorally...but still, y'all vote -- 'cause it's better than NOT voting)

In fact, as it stands now, FREEPER voters could vote for Virgil Goode in over 40 states -- and it won't even potentially touch the electoral voters who will seat the next POTUS.

For all the wrangling about the polls, and certainly some from the liberal media need to be more wrangled about than others, the fact is that the state-by-state polls won't be enough "off" to knock polling off of its reputation for "calling" it for certain states.

How so?

Because Americans are a rather "stiff" lot...Iow...by and large, they are rather predictable voters and consumers...hence, the marketing world has them pegged enough -- detail by detail -- to influence & predict consumer habits...and to be able to pinpoint exactly how much marketing $ to "wager" to ensure results.