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To: Alamo-Girl; TXnMA; Petruchio; MHGinTN
They may merely have an appearance of being mutually exclusive as in the never-ending debate concerning predestination (prophecy) versus free will (commandment.)

Indeed, "appearance" is the operative word here. Perhaps predestination vs. free will are more like complementarities than they are mutually-exclusive concepts.

Yet, we see only as if through a glass darkly, and so we do not logically know how to reconcile them. Also we do not know how to reconcile the time we physically experience as past–present–future, with the out-of-time Eternal Now that we sometimes fleetingly experience as the Gift of the Holy Spirit in our interior life.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. — I Corinthians: 8–13

Here Saint Paul points to what is perhaps the greatest mystery of all for the human mind to grasp and try to fathom: That the very foundation of "all that there is" is divine love, which is the Eternal Now....

From the point of view of the imago Dei (we humans), this means to love God with one's whole heart and soul and mind and strength, and one's neighbor as one's Self.

Not very "scientific!!!" But then, this just goes to show the limitation inherent in science. IMHO FWIW

Dearest sister, you raised some really dicey issues in your last, re: "causation." You wrote: "... effects may appear to us 4D creatures as being caused by prior events when it may be the other way around, e.g. effect>cause instead of cause>effect."

I can see what you mean. We're so inured to our sense of the passage of irreversible linear time that we simply cannot conceive of a cause coming from "the future." How can a future cause cause anything in the present?

And yet, how can any organic function of a living being be understood except as the effect (fulfillment) of a "future" cause? Why did the living being "choose" this particular end, or purpose, with respect to a necessary biological function (e.g., respiration, metabolism, cell repair, etc.)? Why not just pick another end, or purpose? But of course, had it chosen another, it would be highly unlikely to secure the aim of the indicated function....

I agree with your observation that Newton's sensorium Dei denotes a "field." What can we say about fields? One, they are "universal." Two, they are "immanent," or IN spacetime. Three, they may signify some sort of interface between the finite and infinite, between the world of Creation and the Creator. What is for sure is that GOD is not subject in any way, shape, or form to any spacetime field: He Who created the field cannot ever be "reduced" to it in principle.

You added, "the life of any particular creature would be more like a hypersurface." Yikes! This "particular creature" would be a waveform responsive to a hypersurface (mathematically universal, intangible); whereas in the Newtonian "model" of the sensorium Dei, it would perhaps function as a particle....

Fundamental complementarities, here.

Must go think about that some more. :^)

Thank you ever so much Alamo-Girl, my, dearest sister in Christ, for your as-ever outstanding and thought-provoking essay/post!

139 posted on 10/22/2012 1:25:46 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; TXnMA; Petruchio; MHGinTN
Thank you oh so very much for that beautiful Scripture, dearest sister in Christ, and as always your wonderful insights!

Perhaps predestination vs. free will are more like complementarities than they are mutually-exclusive concepts.

I very strongly agree with your assessment!

And yet, how can any organic function of a living being be understood except as the effect (fulfillment) of a "future" cause?

Again, I very strongly agree. Indeed, it is tongue-twisting to try to speak of biological functions without using the word "purpose" as many try to do to avoid speaking of "final cause."

Your example of repair functions is particularly strong when we look at the molecular level. Put another way, living systems developed repair capability before the need could have arisen. It is a temporal anomaly.

Concerning my reference to our existence as a hypersurface, I was thinking in terms of time as volumetric in MHGinTN's lingo.

And I was visualizing from Tegmark's article on the Level IV Parallel universe where he said the bird would see a frog as a "tangle of spaghetti." His observation reminds of the Calabi-Yau Manifold (hypersurface)

That Calabi-Yau gnarled hypersurface is popular in string theory but also many apply in expanded extra dimension theories.

Essentially, I'm thinking that our existence from God's perspective spans over past-present-future, the paths we took on our worldline (linear) and the ones we could have taken had we chosen differently (hyperplane). I realize this is a bit Everett (multi-world) but I couldn't resist ... LOLOL!

Also, I found a related article you might enjoy: A Historical Perspective on the Topology and Physics of Hyperspace

140 posted on 10/23/2012 10:52:49 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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