Posted on 10/08/2012 4:44:56 PM PDT by markomalley
You’re gonna wanna watch that fat mouth of yours in the future, or I’ll ban your ass.
Got it?
Henry Schaefer is worth noting; Chemistry Nobelist Smalley converted to Christianity before his death, as did atheist Anthony Flew.
Oh, and Henry Eyring -- theoretical chemist and father of transition state theory -- was a devout Mormon, as is the next President of the United States.
Nice try though, troll-boy.
Cheers!
Consider geology. It’s God’s work.
It's analogous to the old saw about taking the picture of a man rudely shoving an old lady, which looks bad until the rest of the cropped photo is seen, which reveals that he was pushing her out of the way of a speeding bus.
The pic we have of the universe is merely a snapshot in geologic or cosmological terms, but it is even smaller and even less indicative of truth when compared to eternity and all of God's possible choices for how he might have made the universe look (think for example of the Microsoft 3.1 "look and feel" vs. a 2012 iPhone...and now imagine all you have is a black and white photo of a portion of each one's screen, with no other information.)
Cheers!
I’m always amused when I see “conservatives” adopt the exact same kind of argumentation they otherwise condemn from liberals when discussing global warming, homosexual choice, Republican intellects, or anything else they REALLY want to be true, but can not conclusively prove.
Science is not political correctness especially something as basic as whether the earth is 9,000 years old or billions of years old. Individuals are entitled to their beliefs, but Broun is specifically stating that his beliefs will govern his policy decisions in the area of science. How would your soon with a B.S. in Physics explain the evidence which exists of a earth much older (4 x 10^5) than 9,000 years. You could argue that God started (restarted) his simulation 9,000 years ago so that it would appear that events occurred prior to that time? Why would he do that? I am waiting for Rep. Broun’s evidence of a 9,000 year old earth. Will he make it available to us so we can compare it to the library of evidence that the earth is over 4 billion years old? I have an interesting book in my library called Prehistoric Life. If you accept 9,000 years old (and God did not start the clock in midstride so to speak) then an incredible variety of flora and fauna would have had to exist simulataneously and be fossilized in distict layers where bunny rabbits are not in the same layer as ophiacodons or bony fish with archaeocyathids. I think a useful application of Occam’s Razor is in order.
You could easily find the stars are not at all where they are supposed to be if you hopped over where you couldn't quite catch one of the 12 dimensions projecting their image (takes 12 separate images to create a 3D object in a 3D hologram).
That would put the old time religionists and their nearby Heaven with a really personal God right back in business wouldn't it.
Except you jumped the track there that's where I was going ~ that today's Creationists don't hold a candle to their progenitors who really did think the universe ~ their universe ~ was an awful lot smaller. In fact, back in the day a modern Creationist would probably find himself tarred, feather, ridden out of town on a rail, and then burned as a witch for blasphemy.
“I think a useful application of Occam’s Razor is in order.”
I think a useful application of the Bible is in order. It supersedes all of our “knowledge.”
God created the world in six days in excellent working order. Mountains were up high, trees were full grown, in soil, which is of course broken down elements, Adam and Eve were created as full blown adults. It was a miracle. It need not fulfill whatever scientific laws we have discovered.
Then you don’t need any evidence for a young earth. I am still wondering what Broun’s evidence is for a young earth. The simulation could have started 10 days ago for all we know. If you elect to start the simulation with Adam and Eve 9,000 years ago, then God froze the entire fossil record including the multitude of examples of predation in place (animals eating one another) for what reason? He also decided to freeze in place numerous examples of primates and early hominids. To test our faith?
You are aware that both the Old and New Testament went through a culling process in which many contemporary writings were not included. In addition in the Bible we have today actually has different sacred books if you are a Protestant, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Mormon. Also many passages in both the Old and New Testament refer to other books which are now lost, but should be thought of as canonical (why else refer to them unless they were the inspired word of God). Many leading theologians have had heartburn with the scriptures that remained after the culling process (James’ Epistle of straw as Martin Luther said).
Remember the church has gotten science horribly before (geocentric versus heliocentric solar system for example).
Where do you get the idea that the ancients thougt the image was small? See for example Ptolemy's Almagest (IIRC) as quoted by C.S. Lewis.
Cheers!
Otherwise how could it have survived being misinterpreted, misapplied and misused for hundreds of years by so many?
; )
I do not defend the inspiration of the church. Churches are fallible; God is not. I do defend the inspiration of Scripture.
The arguments you make are questioning the inspiration of Scripture. These arguments have been made since the beginning of time. Indeed, the fall in the Garden of Eden, which I also believe happened, began with questioning God’s word - the Serpent said to Eve, “Yea, hath God said?” And of course Eve decided to question God’s word, and the rest is history.
If you want to cite nebulous culling errors, exclusion of contemporary writings, extra stuff from Hindus, Mormons, the apogrypha, continued prophecy for today, whatever, you are in large company. Most of the world denies that the Bible is God’s final and authoritative and only written word. I am however a Bible believing Christian, and that is what makes me different from the majority of the world.
Depends on the Ancients ~ the Hindus may have had a concept of a very large universe, but the fellows in the West and Middle East didn’t ~ maybe a galaxy or two, but nothing like 26 billion lightyears wide. They even thought of the stars as holes in the sky ~ maybe revealing Heaven beyond, but nothing more than that.
Here's the passage Lewis quoted, from Ptolemy's Almagest; he quotes Book 1, Chapter 5 as follows;
"the Earth, in relation to the distance of the fixed stars, has no appreciable size and must be treated as a mathematical point".
Cheers!
That's right. Induced, pleuripotent stem cells.
*Adult* stem cells.
Meaning that the pinnacle of science agrees that embryonic stem cells are not the only game in town.
Cheers!
See the point about ‘the fixed stars’ ~ really small universe implicit in that thought.
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