Mitt Romney: Born Again

Townhall.com ^ | October 6, 2012 | Steve Deace

[Cronos]

i belive romney is still a flip-flopper, going where his electorate pushes him

it is our job to push him to the tea-party conservative way

[Cronos]

i'm totally anti-baby killing, but do not believe we can mandate on the last two -- that's the choice of the mother and it is a horrible one: to choose her life or the life of her baby

however the numbers of abortions due to ALL 4 of these is barely 0.5% to 1% of the total number of abortions.

we should focus first on the saving of the largest number -- the babies killed for no reason other than "birth control"

For Incest and rape, remember that these are a tiny number -- and I agreee that there is no justification for the abortion and it is a sin, but focussing on this instead of the larger number of babies which we can save is wrong.

[Paperdoll]

Romney ay not be the conservative we want and need, but he may be a tad better than the alternative. Since the same
people own both paraties we have no choice in 2-12!

[muawiyah]

It's a failure of the political system to send it's very best.

In reality it's a sort of depreciation of the value of the Presidency. We bring in a new suit with a different team ~ and they make other stupid mistakes.

I think this sort of thing will ultimately lead to a total parliamentary system. It's getting too expensive to keep in place a permanently elected gang of thieves ~ we need to be able to remove them pursuant to a vote in Congress to hold an election.

[muawiyah]

Antibiotics eliminated virtually all the reasons for maternal deaths. Currently in the United States several times as many women die in abortions as die giving birth.

[SoConPubbie]

i'm totally anti-baby killing, but do not believe we can mandate on the last two -- that's the choice of the mother and it is a horrible one: to choose her life or the life of her baby however the numbers of abortions due to ALL 4 of these is barely 0.5% to 1% of the total number of abortions.

Cronos, I'm surprised both at you letting Romney off the hook, as you have done here, and compromising at any level on the murder of innocents being the committed conservative Catholic that you are.

First of all, re-read my post, Romney stated he was for Abortions for the HEALTH of the mother, not the LIFE.

As we all know, this is the same lie that the left uses all the time to generalize about what the meaning of the HEALTH of the mother means and justify much more than the paltry 0.5% of abortions as you stated.

Instead of compromising on this issue because Romney is your Republican candidate, why not stand true to your conservative, Christian principles, and hold his feet to the fire and demand he change his position?

Wouldn't that be more in line with a solid Chrisitan walk?

[SoConPubbie]

First of all, re-read my post, Romney stated he was for Abortions for the HEALTH of the mother, not the LIFE.

Actually, I should correct that post.

He actually stated he was for abortions for both the Health and Life of the mother.

Furthermore, Mitt has been adamantly stating he was completely pro-life this whole campaign, and now all of a sudden, he states he has been telling us along this campaign season that he supports abortion under these circumstances.

Seems the English language means what Mitt Romney wants it to mean, kind of like Bill Clinton.

[Cronos]

I'm not letting Romney off the hook. Nor am I condoning anyone for taking an abortion with the excuse of their health: physical or mental

I am against baby killing of all stripes on a religious basis. On a legal basis, again there can be no justification for the taking of a life unless someone believes that their own life is in danger -- what I mean is this, I'm not a woman and I cannot demand a woman to sacrifice her life -- those who DO, are saints and I salute them

My numbers of 0.5% are taken from the statistics of Polish abortions -- Poland allows abortions only for rape, incest, mother's life and health and foetal defects -- and abortion % is 0.16 -- in 2010 there were 413,300 births and 644 abortions in the country (so abortions under the excuse of rape etc. -- I don't know the break up of these)

In contrast, out of 4,317,119 births in the US in 2009 (all numbers taken from ) there were 676,823 -- an abortion rate of 20%

US population is approximately 9 times the size of Poland's -- hence if we ONLY allowed abortion in case of rape,incest,mother's health and life and foetal "defects", the number of babykillings that would be allowed would be 6,100 -- in stead we have 676,823 --> so one can conclude that out of all the abortions int he US, 99% are not for incest/rape/mothers life/mother health/foeatl defects

THAT's where I get my numbers from -- in contrast, in the US or Russia ti is 20% or more.

Using those numbers, I guestimate that legitimate abortions for mother's health and life are 0.5%

[Cronos]

I want Romney to reverse the "free babykillings", but look around you -- the dims are using the 1% of abortions to justify the killing of the other 99% (and those 99% are just for "unwanted pregnancies" -- as evil as killing a baby girl at 3 months)

Look at the bigger picture -- we want to save lives. If we fall for left's game of using the 1% to justifiy the 99%, we fail those 99%.

For now we must focus on the ending of frivolous abortion (the 99%) -- next, when we have the Presidency, Congress and the Senate, then baby killing (instead of adoption) for incest, rape and "foetal defects" is to end -- and note for the latter, I believe it is your and my responsibility as society (NOT government's) to help the parents with children with disabilities

Finally we are then left with a pregnancy that can harms a woman's health (physical) or endanger her life -- for this, I cannot demand her to do this, even though I believe it is wrong to take a life. I can help her through this difficult decision, ask her to think about it, to change her mind, but I cannot demand it of her, I'm sorry. Such a situation is one of a horrible decision, but it is the woman's decision.

[Cronos]

finally note that this has been my position (unable to demand on mother's life or health) way before Romney. It has not changed in the past decade since I seriously thought about this and it will not change -- baby killing is baby killing.

Baby killing with the justification of mother's life/health is still horrible, but as I gave in the stats above, this is 0.5% or at max 1% of all abortions --> I am sympathetic with the mother's in those situations and think those who do not kill are saints, but I am HORRIFIED at mothers (AND fathers) who kill their babies for "birth control"

[cynwoody]

When Romney was on, he was really on. He invoked the 10th Amendment. When was the last time a GOP presidential nominee did that?

That's been his excuse all along for not abjuring RomneyCare. Let the states experiment ...

We know what the steps are next January. Open the Affordable Care Act. Select All (2700 pages). Delete. Save. Then start typing ... but what to type?

[Cronos]

muawiyah "Antibiotics eliminated virtually all the reasons for maternal deaths. " -- I agree. And that is what will bring down the number of abortions even after -- as I said, let us focus on one step at a time -- the first step to be the biggest, to stop the frivolous baby killings, the 99%

Do NOT let the left say "they want mothers to die " -- you think they will care about the fact of what Muawiyah has said? Do you think it would work in the MSM? No. We must not give the left the chance

Save the 99%, then work to save more babies.

[woofie]

You need to vote for Mother Theresa

[muawiyah]

Unfortunately your argument has been the policy of all too many Conservatives for too long. It doesn't work.

BTW, when it comes to chosing among the innocent who to murder I'd suggest you keep that one to yourself ~

[Cronos]

I say it does work -- and I give you Poland as an example. Under the communists, all abortions were ok. Now it is limited to just the 4 I talked about above. And recently there have been moved to cut out the legality of babykilling for incest and rape

It can work if we save 99%

[Cronos]

And I am NOT saying to choose the innocent to murder -- neither you nor I are doing the murder or would do it. Also, we would talk to mothers who fear for their health or lives if they give birth and tell them about the medical aid that would prevent that

No, we need to work slowly -- if we go for all, we get shot down by the liberals.

Would you want to be able to quickly pass a law to save 600,000 babies a year? I would still be horrified by the 60,000 killed, but it would be the next step.

Instead if we are intransigent we risk the entire 660,000 dying...

And note that the legality doesn't mean we condone it.

[muawiyah]

You and I are following incompatible philosophies on the matter.

[Cronos]

Why? We both believe that abortion is evil and wrong -- in all circumstances. Yes, I believe that abortion even for a mother's health is a sin

And you want to save babies just as I do. I believe that by not giving the left the opportunity to stop anti-abortion laws by saying "oh, what about the 1%"? we say more babies NOW

The rest we must work to once this first, biggest hurdle is crossed

It's like the horrible choice of an army fighting the enemy -- we can defend all and lose everything (which we will if we go INITIALLY for everything) or if we defend the 99% we save the 99% now and then go on to saving the remaining 1%

[Cronos]

Correcting my numbers -- we have 660,000 babies killed each year. If we ban all abortions except for the 4 points that the left talks about (incest, rape, mothers health, mothers life) -- we instantly give the left no ground to stand on and they have to let us with this

We then save 656,000 out of 660,000 babies -- we can work to saving more

If we hold out for everything, then we lose everything and next year instead of 6000 babies being killed, 660,000 gets killed -- and mark my words -- I'm still appalled by the 6000 and will continue to work to save all, but let us cut the legs under the left by saving the 656,000 first.

[muawiyah]

Seriously, the day I start kow-towing to 'the left' will be a very cold day in hell.

Over there they have a slogan "UP AGAINST THE WALL" ~ which is where I'd rather see them ~