Posted on 09/12/2012 12:59:07 PM PDT by neverdem
Your calculation does not show this to be a huge pension now does it. I suspect it is a little low but a good initial estimate. It would be hard for me to survive on a little more than 2.5 grand a month.
It verifies what I have been saying about them not having outrageous pensions.
Since Chicago teachers have their own pension system they do not pay into or receive Social Security.
“Your calculation does not show this to be a huge pension now does it. I suspect it is a little low but a good initial estimate.”
No, you misunderstand. That amount is the average current year funding for all current active working teachers. The amount they put away for the future retirement benefits. It is not the retirement benefit!
Ok. That funding is partially from the teachers. If you look at the current avg. pension for a retired Chicago teacher it is not exorbitant.
I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn from that figure in any case since there are a lot more than 25,000 teachers drawing pensions.
“In a way, I feel sorry for the CTU. The lousy performance of the students is a reflection of societal and cultural decay.”
To which they’ve contributed significantly.
The amount shown is the current year contributions required to provide future retirement benefits based upon an actuarial computation for their defined benefit plan. These would not be the teacher’s contributions. It uses present value calculations based upon the number of years to retirement, age, expected mortality, estimated yield on fund investments, and expected future retirement benefit.
I’m retired as a CPA and I used to audit pension plans.
With your background perhaps you can tell me what the actual current pension being paid to retired Chicago teachers.
The dopey parents who “support our schools!” are just getting a small portion of what they deserve. Unfortunately, I have one kid in government school right now (and one homeschooled) and I would dance a jig if the schools shut down.
Here is why the teachers are really pissed. Read these proposals:
http://trs.illinois.gov/subsections/press/PensionReformProposals.htm
Here is a cut & paste from the Chicago Teachers Retirement Fund:
Service Retirement
Depending on your stage in life, retirement may be on the horizon or still seem remote. In either case, careful planning helps ensure that you and your family receive the maximum pension benefit from the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund.
The Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund (CTPF) is a defined benefit retirement plan that provides a retirement based on your salary and service credit. After you accumulate five years of service, you are vested and qualify for a lifetime pension once you meet minimum age requirements.
Unlike many other investments, the value of your pension does not fluctuate with investment market conditions.
You can get an estimate of what your retirement pension would be by using our Monthly Annuity Planner.
I entered data in their retirement calculator:
Retirement Age 65
Years of Service 40
Salary at Retirement $76,000 (this is low as it is the average)
Here are the results:
Retirement Monthly Annuity Planner Results:
You indicated that you would be retiring at age 65 with 40 years of service and a final average salary of $76,000.00. Based on your years of service, your pension percentage would be 75 percent and your total annual unreduced pension would be $57,000.00. This is a monthly benefit of $4,750.00.
According to the data you entered, you qualify for an unreduced pension.
I added $10K to the average with all other data the same and here is the result:
Retirement Monthly Annuity Planner Results:
You indicated that you would be retiring at age 65 with 40 years of service and a final average salary of $86,000.00. Based on your years of service, your pension percentage would be 75 percent and your total annual unreduced pension would be $64,500.00. This is a monthly benefit of $5,375.00.
According to the data you entered, you qualify for an unreduced pension.
-— few people can put up with all the BS year after year —
Years ago, New York’s Cardinal O’Connor offered to take the LOWEST -performing 10% of government school students for FREE.
The entire school establishment turned him down.
That tells me something.
It ain’t about the children.
The big problem with an open ended defined benefit plan where the benefit is calculated based upon last year of salary and there is a COLA clause, the unfunded liability can run wild.
Catholic schools are known for their discipline so they do not operate under the same rules as the public. When a child is enrolled their parents agree to abide by the disciplinary restrictions. In the public schools they just raise Hell when their child is disciplined.
It is not about the children per se as much as their parent.
Take the child and put him in a decent home and they do MUCH better. “Parent” is a deliberate usage by me not “parents”.
Any parent who would care enough to send their child to the Catholic schools is already different than the typical welfare mother.
Thanks for the info.
It does not show what the current pension for retired Chicago teachers is. And I would assume that there are very few retirees who actually have 40 yrs of service for many reasons. As of today I would estimate the average pension is around 40-45,000.
I also believe that the percentage of the payoff goes up to 75% so not all have enough years of service to reach 75% probably only a minority ever hit that level.
BTW the link is to information regarding ILLINOIS state employees not Chicago teachers. So those reforms would only affect them indirectly, if at all.
-— Catholic schools are known for their discipline so they do not operate under the same rules as the public. When a child is enrolled their parents agree to abide by the disciplinary restrictions. In the public schools they just raise Hell when their child is disciplined.——
That’s the point. It’s no accident that this is the case. Public schools run like every other government bureaucracy. No reward for performance. Poor performers can’t be fired, etc.
Keep in mind that whenever poor parents are offered an escape route, they jump at the chance. There are long waiting lists for city charter schools and voucher programs. Even the dumbest Obama voter knows where the best TVs are at, so to speak.
Play with the pension calculator at the website: It will answer all your questions.
The numbers I used were from the Chicago Teacher’s Pension site.
Right, I understand that.
BTW Lake Forest teachers are on strike, too. Their average salary is 107,000.
Now who do you think has the harder job: teachers in Lake Forest (an upper class 90+ white suburb, no gangs, little or no poor/welfare) or Chicago (pupils lower middle class and lower class, 70%+ Black, mostly poor/welfare)?
This is what I was referring to when I mentioned that 76 Gs is not that big a salary relative to the teachers in surrounding suburbs.
“That’s the point. It’s no accident that this is the case. Public schools run like every other government bureaucracy.”
No they are not. Most government bureaucracies are not subject to court orders, civil rights lawyers lawsuits. They rarely have to deal with nutso parents/citizens except through the mail or phone. And when it comes to bureaucracy there is nothing that is worse than the CPS.
Public schools are a varied lot and most of the superior ones are superior to the Catholic schools as well. Three of the top twenty schools in the country are in Chicago.
“No reward for performance.” Few, if any schools have that. And it is notoriously difficult to properly evaluate.
Some courses are not reflected immediately.
“Poor performers can’t be fired, etc.” This is simply not true, though a common myth.
It is interesting to note that Rahm “The Wonder Horse” has been threatening to expand school choice and increase the number of Charter schools. He claims 19,000 more students want to enroll in Charter schools than there were slots.
I appears to me that once this specter was raised the Union started to move toward settling.
It’s more than a little hypocritical that 39% of the Chicago teachers send their own kids to private schools while opposing accountability and charter schools for the students that they teach.
No it isn’t hypocritical just good sense and the opposition is from the Union. It is not the teachers fault that the vast majority of the kids they teach are not the type you would want to have your kids associating with. When they can have their kids attend schools not destroyed by the lunatic parents and civil rights lawyers they generally do. Some are also Catholic and want a Catholic education for their rights something public schools cannot do. There are also Lutheran schools for Lutherans.
As I have said my wife was a teacher in the CPS. Our younger son attended kindergarter at the school she taught at. But the civil rights lawyers had forced the school to enroll the project kids (the school had been established to serve a new upper-middle class neighborhood built in the south Loop). Once this happened the kids it was intended to serve withdrew and the inundation by the Welfare class made things so bad we moved our son to our neighborhood elementary school. Our elder boy had attended it as well.
Most of the teachers are white and their kids would be subject to racist attacks by their fellow students.
I went to school in a wealthy Massachusetts town with the proverbial “great school system.” Probably in the top 10 in the state. In 1974, the Jr. High was a cross between an insane asylum and a prison for young teens. Great, in comparison to other govt schools, but still crappy.
Catholic schools look good in comparison, but we unfortunately adopted the Prussian model that the govt schools were based on. We did the same crap, just better. The previous pope said he preferred the Montessorri method...
Read “The Underground History of American Education” to see what compulsory schooling is really about. It’s available to read online for free.
I will leave you with the two maxims that I have drilled into my kids’ heads. They have both memorized.
1) School is prison for children who have committed the crime of being born.
2) The teachers pretend to teach, the students pretend to learn, and the parents pretend that the teachers are teaching and the students are learning.
Everybody’s happy. The system works!
In reality public education was a great concern of the Founders. It was for that reason that public lands were provided for educational institutions. Public education is as American as apple pie.
Prior to the Communist takeover of American education it did a fine job.
My younger son went to a private high school (Lutheran), his first words to me each morning were “Dad, I hate school.” to which I replied “Keeg, that is too damn bad.”
“Govt. schools” are closer to the People than any other institution. So when you condemn them you are really condemning the People, which is fine.
I went to school in a little Southern town in the sixties and loved high school and received a fine education sufficient for me to be admitted to one of the world’s greatest universities.
Ninety percent or more of our military were educated in public schools. There is no real alternative for most people.
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