I guess my point is, if they perport that consciousness, or the soul are epiphenomenon which superveins on a biological entity then they have to explain how it originates. Biological entities (purely physical, they say) would have to have this epiphenomenon emerge, even though there is nothing like it in the physicalist worldview. So, there are two choices for the physicalist...(1)abandon physicalism and embrace dualism, or (2)accept the epiphenomenonalism which forces them to espouse panpsychysm and by definition, a metaphysical reality. If they do not accept one of these two worldviews they must deny that consciousness, sentience, numbers, any abstract, invariant, univeral entity even exists....and that is a hard one for them to have a conversation about. I do not believe their argument,otherwise, is sustainable. Metaphysical naturalism is on its way out, it seems to me. It must be defeated whereever we find it.