Posted on 08/07/2012 6:46:31 PM PDT by pansgold
If he was an “exchange student” who’d we send them? Jeffrey Dahmer?
Rush, Beck,Hannity and Levin have nothing to do with Michael Steele. The latter were pulled or scared off the story.
If, I say If, Obama claimed Indo citizenship status after he was of age, would that be implied consent? Just asking.
But 50% of some kind of people don’t see him in such a light and are mesmerized by his chin up style of speech. Sort of reminds me of a dictator of years past.
All I think of...ever...when I see that p***y little chin-up position of his is.....upper cut.
Totally agree with your post 9.
That email looks alot like a 2009 April fools joke.
Not true. I traveled to Pakistan several times during that period on an American diplomatic passport. There were travel advisories in effect but no ban on travel to Pakistan like there were in the case of North Korea and Cuba. Our Embassy in Islamabad had been attacked in 1980 and there had been some assassinations of American contractors hence the travel advisories. There were plenty of private sector Americans in Pakistan including teachers, businessmen, etc.
Indonesian laws do not control American citizenship, but actions he may have taken under Indonesian law ARE relevant for purposes of determining whether Obama affirmed allegiance to Indonesia so as to lose United States citizenship within the meaning of the INA as in effect in the early 1980s.
For example, if Obama (as a young man and not as a young child) signed and filed papers with the Indonesian government to obtain or renew an Indonesian passport, then that act alone likely constituted the making of an allegiance to Indonesia, since Indonesia required that its passport holders NOT be citizens of any other country.
In contrast, for a country like Israel which permits dual citizenship one is not required to forswear other nationalities to become an Israeli citizen and obtain an Israeli passport.
The law was changed in a number of respects since the time period relevant to actions Obama might have taken to relinquish US citizenship, in particular in the 1986 amendments to the INA. The summary on that webpage is of current law, not to Section 1481 as in effect in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality:
"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).
B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION
A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer, in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.
What significant changes have been made re renunciation of citizenship?
Paragraph (5) of Section 1481 is NOT the only relevant clause.
Try reading paragraph (2):
“(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof”
Also, to repeat myself, you are referring to the statute in effect NOW and NOT in effect in the relevant time period.
For example, the wording “voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality” in the introductory clause of section 1481 and modifying both paragraphs (2) and (5) was added in the 1986 amendments and did NOT apply to actions Obama may have taken in the late 1970s or early 1980s.
If Obama signed and submitted an official document with Indonesia in that time period to obtain or renew a passport he very likely by that action necessarily affirmed allegiance to Indonesia.
That would have resulted in the loss of his US nationality whether any consular officer knew of it or not.
I suspect that Obama kept up his Indonesia passport for some time even as an adult, perhaps using it to travel to Pakistan and perhaps also for the months in Bali when he said he was working on his book (when it appears he stayed longer than a normal tourist visa under a US passport would have allowed). It may have come in handy when applying to colleges to have a foreign passport to support admission by universities at a time when accepting more foreign students especially from third world countries was becoming in vogue.
If so, he likely didn’t tell Indonesia that he was maintaining a US passport on the side. But that he may have been lying to Indonesia doesn’t matter, when he signed and submitted the paperwork for his passport renewal in Indonesia because Indonesia did not permit foreign passport holders to obtain Indonesian passports, the submission he would have made under Indonesian law was likely sufficient to lose his US nationality as an affirmation of allegiance.
and I should add that he may ALSO have a problem under paragraph (1) of Section 1481(a):
“(1) Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application”
I have seen it stated that under Indonesian law, if someone receives Indonesian nationality as a child and wants to maintain it as an adult, then he or she needs to file a submission with the Indonesian government to affirm it prior to becoming 21 years of age. (I don’t know how accurate this statement is.)
If Obama decided to do some such thing prior to turning 21 in order to hang onto his Indonesian nationality then he likely lost his US nationality under paragraph (1), without even taking into account actions he may have taken under paragraph (2) or paragraph (5).
Again, he would have lost his nationality even if no one in the US State Department even knew about it.
Of course I would see it as fraudulent, lying, and other words this forum would not like posted. Don't be silly. The issue is not whether I have a problem with his actions (I do) my comment is directed at inaccurate information, and the damage it does.
You may not recall, but I remember Representative Leo Berman looking silly on CNN when he claimed there was a travel ban to Pakistan, proving Obama used an Indonesian passport as an adult. I don't know how many times it's been debunked on FreeRepublic, but it still occasionally pops up. So does this one - that he lost US citizenship as a child. There's plenty of real issues to talk about, so why post something that's not true?
How would you know what's true and what's not? Obama's records have been sealed. Have you seen them?
If there is inaccurate information in the article, point it out. Provide your proof. I really cannot understand how you can conclude anything about Obama unless you have personally seen his sealed records. Tell us, what part is not true.
Ignoring this whole issue opens up a can of worms that should never have been opened. John Boehner needs to go and go soon.
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