Nissan Leaf Range Loss Issues Persist In Arizona

Hybrid Cars (website) ^ | July 23, 2012 | Jeff Cobb

[BobL]

Home / Nissan Leaf Range Loss Issues Persist In Arizona

Published July 23, 2012

By Jeff Cobb 2012_nissan_leaf_06

Owners of the Nissan Leaf in Arizona have been chronicling complaints with Nissan whose representatives were initially said to be explaining away substantial range degradation, but now it appears Nissan is responding further to the heat.

And perhaps that is appropriate as the heat of Arizona was what presumably created issues that have prompted a thread now 169 pages long on the MyNissanLEAF.com forum.

As you can see in the video report, some owners have reported unacceptably significant degrees of range loss compared to their original range and are collecting stories and banding together to commiserate, and try to get a satisfactory response.

“When I first purchased the vehicle, I could drive to and from work on a single charge, approximately 90 miles round trip,” a Leaf owner, still an ardent fan of the car, told the Phoenix CBS affiliate. “Now I can drive approximately 44 miles on this without having to stop and charge.”

[BobL]

One of my rare postings.

Be sure to watch the Channel-5 video clip that's part of this story.

Related Articles/sites:

http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/07/25/heat-taxpayer-backed-nissan-leafs-lose-power

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&sid=74dd3d32b816d2dc029b052f8d53b6fe&start=10

We could be building aircraft carries to get ready for China, but we're blowing our money on this garbage.

[dila813]

Heat does cause batteries to degrade faster and discharge faster, rechargeable batteries are very susceptible to this, alkalines less so.

Sounds like these buyers just were ignorant to the state of battery technology.

[omega4179]

A Gas car with the battery in the rear fender is ideal in that heat, like a BMW 3 series.

[Balding_Eagle]

They need to turn the air conditioners OFF.

It will help prevent global cooling.

WAIT, or is it global WARMING this year?

[BobL]

“Sounds like these buyers just were ignorant to the state of battery technology.”

I don’t think you meant what you said. Common sense - yes - if you buy a Smart Car, don’t tow a 40 foot trailer. Engineering knowledge - no. I think it’s expecting a lot from a car buyer to analyze the degradation rate of the particular battery chemistry used in a given car. Perhaps, instead, Nissan should adjust their spec. numbers, based on the climate. In other words, have the deals in Phoenix tell the truth to the customers.

But I do give GM some credit. They had enough brains to keep an engine in the Volt and have it coupled to the drive train...essentially a hybrid, while calling it electric. Nissan didn’t do that with the Leaf, and now they pay.

[BobL]

A cool site to checkout...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss

[I see my hands]

I'm happier with Nissan than I have been with any other brand. These get a little under 20 mpg and I don't put a lot of mileage on them and I'm able to afford the gas.

But damn! When I fill 'em up I get so pissed at the cost. I curse and strut every time. Stinking quarter tank costs over twenty clams! I think to myself what about the poor working slob with a big commute? Don't they get angry every time they fill up? Don't they seethe with hatred for Zero?

Seems to me having to see those numbers, week after week, is a real life reminder of what has done to each of us, personally, and should be more than sufficient for 90% of the population to want to remove that sucker from office. I don't get it. Why isn't the price of gas issue enough when it's in our face every week?

[BobL]

...and this is how Fisker treats its owners of their $100,000 electric cars.

http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/05/10/fisker-insinuates-customer-blame-karma-fire

[Sherman Logan]

Gas prices are meaningless unless adjusted for inflation. For instance, in the 20’s a new Model-T cost under $300.

Adjusted for inflation, the high point of gas prices over the last century have been:

1918 - $3.75

1981 - $3.37

2011 - $3.48

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp

[I see my hands]

Have salaries kept up with real inflation?

[BobL]

Reading some more fun stuff on this at:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&sid=2808408885e42087df2ee9e97eedcbdf&start=20

It seems that Nissan’s warranty covers the vehicle for “loss of power”, but not loss of range. So you’re essentially stuck with a gas tank that gets smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and shrinks rather quickly, with one guy losing 15% the first year.

[Greysard]

Forums there are a great read. For example:

ruimegas: I drove 85 miles home from dealer; 55 mph, ECO on, cruise control on. 100% charge right before I left the dealer's. Low battery warning at about 79 miles. Estimated range was 12 miles when I stopped, for what that's worth.

Or this:

I intend to do 90 miles in a road with limit speed of 56 miles (90 kmh) but among the road I have to reduce speed several times to 44 miles (70 kmh). With your post I trust I'll be able to reach my goal

Leaf owners are in an exclusive class of vehicle owners who have to check with Google Maps each time they want to drive somewhere. (The other bunch of folks who do that are drivers of trucks with oversized load.) Oh, by the way, if in all that summer heat the road that you want is closed for repairs and you need to take a 10 mile detour ... hope you have a big gasoline-powered generator with you, or a wad of bills to pay for towing. You can't plug in and recharge under a pine tree if the distance to the nearest town is ten miles. You can't even bring fuel to the car... There are places around here where you need to be aware of fuel even with a gasoline car.

[BobL]

Great posting!!!

Yea, if you’re driving a Leaf or a Double-Wide, you have to clear your path before leaving (ideally by having someone drive it first, with a gasoline engine). Anything else (just about), you just hop in and go.

[Sherman Logan]

For most of the last 100 years, absolutely. In 1918, when adjusted gas price was $3.75, average family income was about $22,000.

In 1981 gas was $3.37 and median family income was $44k. (Not sure how this lines up with the "average" family income for 1918.)

Today gas is somewhere around $3.40 and median family income is around $50k.

[Puckster]

Last summer Nissan’s fix for the battery problem was to reprogram for less battery usage and more engine usage.

My in-law’s lived in Surprise, AZ for about 10 years and about every 2 years they had to change their battery out.

[BobL]

I’m going to try to make a listing of what it takes to drive that car - and then compare it to a gasoline car. A goddam 747 is easier to operate. My first posting:

(They warn you that if you charge to 100%, rather than 80% on a regular basis you’ll lose capacity quickly - now I translate to the world of gasoline cars)

“Hey IDIOT!!! Are you crazy? You should know that always filling up your gas tank will make your gas tank shrink in size!”

[mriguy67]

There is a guy here is scottsdale who had a 30 yr old small pickup that the bed is filled with lead acid batteries and he has a truck rack that has solar panels on it. he says he hasnt bought any gas in 20 yrs or something like that. He shows up at the car shows on Saturdays. As far as these nissanleafs and other cars, they need to carry a honda generator on them as a backup if the battery gets low

[SatinDoll]

The lead acid battery performs optimally at 71 degrees Farenheit. Can it be run at higher temperatures, say over 100 degrees F? Of course, and batteries can be operated at lower temperatures as well. But in both cases they would operate at a derated level, discharging less power.

For Nissan Leaf owners in Arizona, the best way to deal with this is to use gasoline during the hot, daytime hours and use the batteries at night, or during the mildest seasons in Arizona. That would be how I would do it.

I wrote engineering reports concerning the use of lead acid batteries in UPS rooms as back-up power for nuclear power plants.

[Jeff Chandler]

They should have spent more time here.

[BobL]

“Last summer Nissan’s fix for the battery problem was to reprogram for less battery usage and more engine usage.”

The leave doesn’t have an engine, but I did read the same thing regarding the Honda Insight (I think).

I was in stitches after reading that also. The batteries were dying, so the owners take the them to dealers. The dealers confirm that the battery is toast and instead of replacing the battery, the dealers “reprogram” the car in such a way that it essentially stops using the battery and is functionally no longer a hybrid.

The owners get to find out what it’s like to drive a heavy car (hybrids are heavy, by definition) with a crappy engine. LOL!!!!!