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To: Forty-Niner

The founding fathers were natural born subjects of England. Yet they were not born in England.

To be natural born under English law - the law the founders were familiar with and many trained practitioners of - one had to be born into that condition.

The Constitution only mentions or envisions three types of citizen - those at the time of the founding, those who would be natural born, and those who would have to be naturalized.

U.S. law is consistent - one is either born a citizen or naturalized as a citizen.


78 posted on 07/18/2012 11:29:25 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream; Forty-Niner
The founding fathers were natural born subjects of England. Yet they were not born in England.

Natural Born Subject (NBS) was never the same as Natural Born because the usage of term NBS also includes naturalized Subjects.

Gray who wrote the 1898 WKA opinion quoted (dicta) the famous jurist Blackstone, but he did inform the uninformed that the British NBS law was of British statute or regulation and that it was not natural law. Blackstone who in his published "Commentaries" completely agreed with deVattel that Natural Born and Natural subject are NOT the same.

83 posted on 07/18/2012 11:43:37 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: allmendream

“U.S. law is consistent - one is either born a citizen or naturalized as a citizen.’

You are correct.

As far a the subject vrs citizen debate, we must realize that while the Founders used British Common Law (unwritten law...traditonal law) they did not creat a carbon copy of British government/monarchy. The Founders went far afield and borrowed ideas from many of the then popular jurists and political theorists of the 18th century. One cannot just look at traditional British Law at say Ah Ha! There are great divides between our Republic and the British Monarchy of the time.

One fundamental difference is that of the relationships between a subject and a goverment and a citizen and a government.

The Government (The Crown) claims all born in it’s juristruction to be “subjects.” They are responsible to the government.

In the Founder’s Republic, the Government is responsible to it’s citizens, who may be either born or naturalized (citizens by application and acceptance.) Like I said a fundalmental diffference.....

The term NBS, and it’s common law meaning, while similiar in wording has no resemblence in meaning to the Founder’s intent in their usage of the centuries old term NBC and it’s modern 18th century definition as articulated in the legal tomes of the day.


108 posted on 07/18/2012 12:53:25 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (The barely bare, berry bear formerly known as..........Ursus Arctos Horribilis.)
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