191st Birthday Tribute to General Forrest

Canda Free Press ^ | July 13, 2012 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

[BigReb555]

It should be also noted that after the War Between the States, Bedford Forrest returned home with the 'free' black men who fought with him.

[triSranch]

There is 1 battle that comes to mind..

The Last Trench
by Louis Beam

[Kenny Bunk]

I am using two sources today: Jubal Early's Memoirs, and Benson Bobrick's "Master of War."

General Early says that the Union Army was a primary source of tactical munitions, but he also supports your point. Rations of course were another matter. The Confederates were all too often forced to live off the land and plundered Union stores. BTW, I got carried away on this thread. Nathan Bedford Forrest was an incredibly strong and inspiring tactical leader and a great strategist. Given more support and better commanders, western operations could well have gone the Confederate way with Forrest as the cutting edge.

He clearly seemed to have a better appreciation of the biog picture than the commanders under which he served. E.G., Had Hood permitted him to go after Schofield as he was withdrawing from Franklin, the Battle of Nashville could have gone the other way ... maybe. Hood delayed him too long, and he was beaten back.

Happy Birthday to him!

[prof.h.mandingo]

Stuart screwed up but I agree A.P. Hill was more responsible. Of course if you want the real reason for the loss you have to look to Ewell on the first day. Lee was in a position to roll up the entire Army of the Potomac but Ewell held back and allowed the Yanks to fortify Cemetery Hill. Lee really missed Jackson on that day. The Army of the Potomac was scattered and most of Lee's men were in perfect position to sweep the field. Hill screwed up the second days battle.
If you want an interesting take on the battle read “Last Chance for Victory”. It presents Longstreet in a much better light. He handled his part of the second days battle perfectly.
I don't know if you are aware but Reb troops were on Cemetery hill the evening of the second days battle. Meade had stripped his entire line to fend of Longstreet. It was as Lee planned and Hill failed to support the attack as ordered and the unsupported Rebs were driven back thus bringing on the tragic third days battle.

[Forty-Niner]

“They were like the Japanese naval aviators in World War II. Once the experienced ones got killed, there was no one to replace them.”

People forget what a meat grinder the CW was. A historic turning point in warfare that pitched closely spaced, massed formation against modern weapons, cartridge repeaters, etc. European Generals studied our CW and came up with strategies that resulted in the trench warfare of WWI.

Evolving to modern times we have widely spaced, but highly mobile forces like the Conf. Cav of old that can converge and disperse rapidly, mitigating the effect of modern weapon systems and superior number opposition forces.

[Antoninus II]

I had a Nigerian coworker that borrowed many of my books on the CW. He was the president of the local Zumunta Assn, a cultural exchange thing with Nigeria. He had a local black female techer ask him about who he admired most from our history. When he included NBF she became outraged! He calmly told her the thruth about his history. She didn’t believe it. Typical...

[Kenny Bunk]

Great post. Plenty of Confederate blame to go 'round on that day. Lee told Ewell to occupy Cemetery Ridge "If practicable!" Reckon he thought it wasn't.

Lee wasn't at his best that 1st day, either. Vicious case of dysentery. A.P. Hill was a charismatic commander, but it's my impression that he was much too impetuous and liable to go off half-cocked, screwing up Lee's well laid plans ... and this wasn't the first time either. His over-aggressiveness goes back to First Manassas and then his service under Jackson.

He also seemed quite careless of casualties, which Lee always thought to minimize by maneuver rather than direct assault.

Have you been to the battlefield?

[vetvetdoug]

Have you been to the battlefield?

I have had the privilege of riding horseback over the entire battlefields of Shiloh, Ft. Donelson, Chickamauga, Stones River, Kennesaw Mountain, and Gettysburg to name a few and several that are not included in the Military Park System..Britton's Lane, Middleburg, Hatchie Bridge, Corinth, Brice's Crossroads, Harrisburg...I also was able to cover Gettysburg and experience it as a member of a six horse artillery hitch. It gives one quite a perspective about the terrain and the battle.

[Kenny Bunk]

Antietam is a very well preserved battle field and I had the pleasure of living nearby, with Gettysburg "up the road apiece.". The battlefield aside, where of course no disturbance is allowed, the whole surrounding area had been picketed and patrolled for so long that there was a lot of stuff lying about that got plowed up. Many a local farmer had his own little museum in his parlor, In fact, in Williamsport, there is a local business that does nothing but sell metal detectors.

At dusk on the anniversary of the great battle, 21,000 luminaria line the roads to symbolize the casualties of the day. But I envy your horseback look at these battlegrounds. One really understands so much more that way.

What is your re-enactment unit?

[prof.h.mandingo]

It is on the “bucket list”. I hope to perhaps, Good Lord willing, be in the area for the 150th in 2013 but my cousin passed away recently and there went my condo in Alexandria, Va.
It was my impression that Hill was perhaps suffering from VD picked up in the Mexican War. He was uncharacteristically reticent to attack as in former engagements. As was Ewell. He was a firebrand under Jackson. I think he was not really over the loss of his leg. If I remember correctly Ewell redeemed himself in the Wilderness. The battle of Gettysburg is one of those eerie battles that seem preordained from the beginning. The more I study it (going on fifty years)the more I get a cold chill.
If you are into the Revolution check out Yorktown. Strange things happened there also. I mean the French fleet held off the British fleet. THE FRENCH. LOL. A freak storm held up the British fleet in New York harbor. There are other instances during the siege. Cue Twilight Zone music.

[prof.h.mandingo]

Thanks for the GREAT POST. Read my comments if you like on Fort Pillow. Thanks again for the post.

[Daveinyork]

Of course it would have been absurd, but no more absurd than the idea of an unknown artillery officer gaining control of France, and then most of Europe. History is full of such absurdities. As a Yankee, I’m glad that Forrest’s qualities were not recognized until late in the war, and I shudder to think of what may have happened had it been otherwise.

I’m not one who believes that the two nations would have lived peacefully thereafter on the continent had the Confederacy succeeded in maintaining its independence. There is no evidence of it. I think much of Harry Turtledove’s alternate history has a lot of merit.

[Daveinyork]

Don’t forget, Lee ordered infantgry charges against fortified positions on the high ground. He made all the same mistakes at Gettysburg that Burnside made at Fredericksburg, and, for once, Lee was not fighting a fool. Meade was a capable commander, maybe the first one that Lee ever encountered.

[Kenny Bunk]

I mean the French fleet held off the British fleet. THE FRENCH. LOL. A freak storm held up the British fleet in New York harbor. There are other instances during the siege. Cue Twilight Zone music.

Now Professor, don't knock the Frogs so close to Bastille Day ... besides they did yeoman work in our Revolution at great expense to themselves. De Grasse was a fighting admiral, too. Unfortunately he had his cul handed to him later in the West Indies. My favorite revolutionary Divine Intervention was the mysterious ground fog that allowed the Americans to escape from Washington Heights!

In re Gettysburg ... you'll make it! Unfortunately, the town is a tourist trap and now there's an occult something or other going on with ghost tours, ghostbusters, apparitions reported,, etc. etc. So, maybe you're onto something!

While nowhere as pristine as Antietam, amazingly much of the battlefield remains as it was. I believe Lee's original plan was to fight a defensive battle ... Ewell wanted to base it at Cashtown ... he certainly wasn't 100% physically at the time. A.P. Hill spent an inordinate amount of time on sick leave and he was mighty touchy about the prerogatives of his command. Tactically brilliant, but perhaps not quite as much a collaborative commander as he might have been. BTW, I cannot tell you how valuable I find Jubal Early's memoirs. Not only a capable commander, he seems to be a dead reliable report writer who admits his own mistakes ... no self-aggrandizement and lots of detail.

If you are into the Revolution
Professor, it has always secretly worried me that had I been around, I might have been a Tory!

[DeaconBenjamin]

BTW, I cannot tell you how valuable I find Jubal Early's memoirs.

Have you ever read Destruction and Reconstruction by Richard Taylor? A great read!

[Kenny Bunk]

Dave, when you look down from Cemetery Ridge you wonder, "What the heck was Marse Bob thinking!?!" The sheer impossibility of the task against the entrenched muskets and artillery on top of that long slope makes your head swim.

Recently I saw a show in which they demonstrated that only about half the available command was in the actual assault. Based on reports of the day, it seems that many of Pickett's command slipped back when they were held up at the fence, which of course should have been sapped the night before. They based this on the number of casualties reported ... which should have been far greater if they had all attacked. A sad calculation indeed.

So it's all the more amazing that those who actually made the charge, made it to the Union lines. No matter what side one happens to favor, this was a tragedy.

[KC Burke]

Special interest.

[Daveinyork]

I’ve been there. Looked down from Cemetery Ridge, and looked up from the field that the Rebs had to cross to get there.

Marse Robert faced his first competent general in Meade at Gettysburg, and didn’t fare well.

[prof.h.mandingo]

There was , if I remember correctly, fog that kept Cornwallis from escaping Yorktown. The fog of war. LOL.
Another one was were a Col. Ferguson had Washington in his sights but didn't pull the trigger. One of the early battles. At the time Fergerson did not know it was Washington, just an officer who appeared to be unarmed. Can't shoot an unarmed man. He also remarked on Washington's courage. Interesting side note Ferguson developed a repeating rifle but the British rejected it.
Good points on old Judal. He was great. Nasty. Wasn't he the only one who could cuss near General Lee? I love he went to Mexico after the war.
He was also involved in the Louisiana Lottery after the war. With Beauregard I believe.
I have not read his auto. I will do so. Thanks.
If I make it up there I will try to allow time to hit Antietam.