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Texan Shoots Drunk Man in Self-Defense
guns.com ^ | 6 July, 2012 | dabneybailey

Posted on 07/08/2012 5:36:26 PM PDT by marktwain

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To: upchuck

Not a great idea, given the way laws in this area tend to work in most states, and given close-quarters interactions. If you draw, you probably best be shooting.


41 posted on 07/08/2012 9:00:42 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: upchuck

Despite what you wrote, I would rather pull out my concealed weapon and hold it casually pointed down at the ground and give the attacker a chance to back away. If they continue to threaten or attempt to attack, then BLAM!


I agree with what you wrote except I would never point the gun at the ground. If I was sure he was unarmed, I’d give him a chance to live but I would not hesitate, if he decided it was time for him to keep up the violence and die, after seeing my weapon trained on him.

People can be murdered with a perp’s bare hands and I could not stand by while armed and permit that to happen to me or a helpless victim. Shooting someone for me, is serious business, so giving him a chance to repent and run if he is unarmed, is what I would need to do, too.

The shooter, in this case, was being attacked by the idiot and he did not have time nor choice in the matter. The perp could have disarmed him if he did not shoot once he pulled his gun. Bang.


42 posted on 07/08/2012 9:04:33 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: TXnMA

The operative phrase is “Too old to take a beating, and too young to die.”


43 posted on 07/08/2012 9:06:15 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster
and given close-quarters interactions. If you draw, you probably best be shooting.

At the training that I took the instructor made it very clear that we should be ready to fire at the count two. Count one is when the weapon clears the holster. Count two is when it is rotated toward the target while being still near the holster. From that moment on the weapon tracks the target to the best of your abilities. You most certainly do not point it toward the ground, the sky, or your foot. This link discusses positions and mentions that Low Ready on draw is detrimental. At the training we used it only after the exercise was complete, before reholstering.

44 posted on 07/08/2012 9:25:47 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Flatus I. Maximus

Considering what you typed, considering how many times I’ve hit my head, or had it hit and been knocked out, I’m lucky I don’t suffer from anything specifically from that (though the people I know will vehemently argue different).


45 posted on 07/08/2012 11:22:09 PM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: upchuck; marktwain
The article doesn’t say if the shooter first tried to use the gun to threaten the drunk. It reads like the shooter drew his gun and shot. I hope that isn’t what happened.

Why? The shooter retreated from the store to the parking lot even though he had no obligation to do so.

46 posted on 07/09/2012 7:25:18 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Flatus I. Maximus; marktwain
Hell, no. Punch-happy drunks kill people with their fists and feet all the time. Just last month a guy near here ended up in critical condition and in a coma because a drunk in a bar took a disliking to him, followed him out to the parking lot, and hit him *once*, causing him to fall and hit his head on a concrete parking berm. The poor s.o.b. is probably going to have permanent brain damage and spend months in rehab just because some dumb-ass was drunk and "punch-happy."

My father died two years ago today, less than four days after falling down in a parking lot and hitting his head on the pavement.

47 posted on 07/09/2012 7:51:39 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: PAR35
Defensive display should be a viable option.

Many attacks are stopped by the knowledge the victim is armed.

48 posted on 07/09/2012 8:52:59 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: upchuck
if the shooter first tried to use the gun to threaten the drunk.

Using a previously concealed carry weapon to threaten others has been the cause of several Texans to loose their conceal carry license.

You don't pull it out unless you are in fear from your life in the present situation. If you pull it out and prepare to shoot, and the situation changes, it does not mean you are required to shoot.

But if you "brandished" your weapon to threaten, rather than prepared to shoot, you would lose your CCW.

49 posted on 07/09/2012 9:37:51 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: riverrunner
Defensive display should be a viable option.

Threatening others with a weapon is not allowed.

But if, as you prepare to shoot while you are in fear of imminent harm, the situation changes, then you are not required to shoot because you pulled out your gun.

Think about the difference. You are not required to be a quick draw artist.

50 posted on 07/09/2012 9:45:10 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
In some states defensive display is perfectly allowable.

Knowning what laws you are being govern by is very useful.

51 posted on 07/09/2012 10:12:04 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner
In some states defensive display is perfectly allowable.

Would you please name one state that allows a CCL to threaten another showing a weapon?

52 posted on 07/09/2012 12:54:36 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

AZ defensive display was written into the law.


53 posted on 07/09/2012 1:38:48 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner
The law states that the “Defensive Display” of a firearm by a person is justified “when and to the extent that a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.”

http://azccwpermit.com/?p=305

It is a rather limited time frame to display, but I agree, they have written the law for defensive display.

On the other hand, it seems the law has set those up who use this to fail legally if taken to court. If displaying the weapon prevented further action, how was physical force immediately necessary.

I still believe (but I am not a lawyer) that preparing to fire can provide a defensive display. We are not required to be a quick draw artist. And I agree that CCW permit holders should not display a weapon unless they are prepared to use it.

54 posted on 07/10/2012 5:47:05 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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