“Since you don’t accept the entire Old Testament which is the entirety of Scripture Christ and the Apostles quoted and taught from we really have nothing to discuss”
I’ve already shown from scripture what Christ called and the apostles called “all scripture” at the time of Christ which included the Law, the Prophets, and Psalms (poetic writings). Your assertion that there are more than this “all scripture” carries no weight and contradicts scripture.
“The one thing you might consider is how much:”
Numbers 16:3 And when they had stood up against Moses and Aaron, they said: Let it be enough for you, that all the multitude consisteth of holy ones, and the Lord is among them: Why lift you up yourselves above the people of the Lord?
The people rebelled against the man God had chosen to be the mouthpiece of God and put there own dreams and visions above his authority. There was no Law for the people to consult then. Moses was the source of the Law for them.
I have the utmost regard for the authority of Moses and the apostles. They are the ones who wrote the scriptures. It is you who are asking me to disregard their authority for that of contemporary men on the supposition these modern clergymen have more authority than God’s Word, Moses and the apostles.
You will assert the Church is needed to understand scriptures. Who then will help you understand the Church? And who will explain that person’s explanation, and so one, forever. The Word of God is alive and can explain itself without the need for a human teacher. And God has provided His Holy Spirit to teach also.
“Then consider how God the Father Almighty must look at those who follow a man rather than His Son, The Incarnate Word of God made flesh.”
But you are the one advocating to follow modern clergy men to tell me what is God’s Word when I do not need them because Jesus and Peter and Paul already tell me what is God’s word and who has apostolic authority.
A larger problem here is that I have already addressed these issues very plainly, and you skip over my arguments as if they were not even there, and fail to answer them, and just assert more vehemently that you are right. You haven’t answered anything regarding apostolic credentials, or what Jesus and the apostles called “all scriptures”.
"I accept all of scripture and not what men have added to it and claimed to be from God."
If someone honestly believed that or believed Scripture interprets itself, then the tens of thousands of different interpretations is proof that they should throw out the entire New Testament. But then, everyone really knows Scripture never has been the self-explanatory collection of nursery rhymes Luther and so many others want to pretend it is. That's exactly why so many non-Catholics refer to various self-illuminating, obvious, Scriptures to "prove" it's fine for them to ordain queers, marry queers one to another, excuse abortion as no different than stealing a pencil at work, and all the other things that “the clear meaning of Scripture” rationalizes for tens of millions of people in this country. Face the facts, Luther threw out portions of the Old Testament because they so clearly disagreed with his desire to worship Self. Likewise, there are tens of thousands of different groups each preaching what makes them feel good or makes them a buck, and when folks throw out Scripture before they even begin to interpret His Word there’s no limit to what sort of heresy and falsehood they can claim to find in whatever subset of the Scriptures they decide to retain.
Why would anyone who is honestly seeking to follow Christ believe that a council of Jews who were trying to kill off Christianity and murdering Christians whenever they could is the proper authority to dictate the Christian canon? That's exactly what those who refuse the Christian canon as it stood from the time of Christ until Luther do. They’re agreeing with men who were actively trying to halt the conversion of Jews to Christianity and knew what they threw out was extremely effective in leading Jews to Christ. That’s exactly the same reason Luther wanted shed of James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation, along with so much else in the New Testament, because those Scriptures clearly do not teach the gospel of Self and Luther knew it. Most people these days aren’t even familiar with what Luther threw out, so it’s that much easier for those who claim Self deification to agree with Luther rather than what has been accepted as Scripture ever since the Apostles. If someone claims be guided by the Word of God but starts out by throwing away portions of Scripture Jewish, anti-Christian, survivors of the revolt against Rome thought were too Christian, they’re not serious about Christ or Christianity. They’re serious about being comfortable with their worship of Self. Without removing such clear teaching about Christ and Christianity, it’s much more difficult to preach another gospel while pretending to base it on the Word of God. Self worshipers can easily get by preaching their gospel of Self as long as they keep anyone from focusing on the fact that they really only believe a select subset of the Bible even though they claim to believe in Scripture Alone. They really begin with Scripture I Like Alone and try to keep anyone from noticing that fact.
When someone accepts that sort of reasoning there’s no doubt they’ll go along with all sorts of revisions and reinterpretations of whatever subset of the Scriptures they pretend to believe if that’s what it takes to make themselves comfortable. Claiming that they are really, really, full of the Holy Spirit is simply an attempt to skip over the facts they’ve already denied, and one thing they’ve already denied is the power of the Holy Spirit. Never mind that minor tidbit, they just argue their personal favorite (for the moment) interpretation of Scripture or one of the tens of thousands of available interpretations that all claim they are correct. Once someone is doing that, it’s a short step to absurdities like, “those millions of souls who thought they were Christian before Reverend Johnny Come Lately was shown the truth were just wrong and all in Hell”, or “God didn’t love mankind until Calvin, people before that were zombies born into this world predestined to Hell with no way to avoid it”. So, why stop with just throwing out Scripture? Why not add a few books of your own the way some people have or at least just one the way Calvin did? Use some snazzy 1830s style PowerPoint charts to “prove” those millions who the Holy Spirit let think they were Christian when they really weren’t don’t matter anyway. Better still; claim those folks were all in a different sales region of the health and wealth machine God is running. People who begin by throwing out portions of the Bible will do whatever it takes to rationalize their religion of Self.
Of course, if someone honestly believes what the Bible teaches about the Holy Spirit, they know it’s absurd to pretend that Holy Spirit was on vacation for fifteen hundred years and returned just in time to cheer Luther on as he threw out parts of both the Old and New Testaments. The reality is that anyone who believes in guidance from the Holy Spirit knows that if the Holy Spirit allowed the canon as established by the Catholic Church to stand for fifteen hundred years, then that canon is correct. If someone can’t agree with that, they’re denying the power of the Holy Spirit. There’s absolutely no reason to believe someone arrived at what they’re preaching due to their being guided by the Holy Spirit if that person has already denied the power of the Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately, the majority of folks will keep wallowing in that sort of contradiction along with hundreds of others in order to frolic through their lives worshiping their own Most High and Holy Self and following Eve rather than Christ. Exactly like Eve, they’ll alter the Word of God to suit themselves and their goals even if it means throwing a portion of His Word into the garbage to avoid what His Word teaches. Such folks all insist they each one have the authority to revise or ignore any portion of the Word of God that denies them something they want exactly the same way Eve ignored the Word of God when she wanted to eat the forbidden fruit. Anyone who can't bear the cross of obedience isn't following Christ. They're refusing to follow Christ exactly because Christ expects them to surrender to Him, not enthrone their Self and claim the power and authority to negotiate the terms of their surrender.
Such folks are just so much tepid water flowing along the path of least resistance. And the path of least resistance in this country has always been to call yourself a Protestant Christian of whatever flavor is popular at the moment. Jesus Christ Himself founded The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, entrusted His Church to His Apostles until His return, and defined that Church as His Body we’re all to be a part of. Furthermore, Christ called His Church a bright shining city on a hill, not some sort of invisible phantom or shadow organization with tens of thousands of differing doctrines.
Just because someone roots around in the muck and tosses out a pearl they’ve stumbled across doesn’t change the fact that refusing to accept portions of the Word of God before even discussing the meaning of what’s in His Word is a clear refusal to surrender to Christ. That much is proved by the fact that even with, clear, direct quotes, of Christ Himself to refer to, many people refuse to accept the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. There’s no need to go beyond the fact that someone doesn’t accept and won’t accept the entire Bible before even discussing interpretation to know that whichever doctrine they want to challenge, Purgatory or whatever, isn’t what they care about. What they care is about rationalizing the same thing Eve did, deciding for themselves what God really commands. Defending a subset of Scripture as interpreted by the Most High and Holy Self isn’t defending the Truth, the Bible, or Christ; it’s defending the pyramid scam Self has fallen for and trying to avoid the Truth so buyer’s remorse won’t set in. As they say, busy hands are happy hands and no good con artist like Satan wants his marks idle rather generating interest to help sell speaking engagements, books, DVDs, and anything else that generates new marks.
Purgatory is every bit as clear in both the Old and New Testament as the Trinity is and is backed up by the sacred Tradition of His Church as handed down from Christ through the Apostles to us through His Church. Most sincere people will over time recognize their error and become a part of His Church unless they actively work to stay distracted or to avoid the Truth for fear of having to admit they were wrong. Those who are happy with Self Worship, though, don’t actually care whether Purgatory exists as long as they’re comfortable with their Self so they can eat, drink, and be merry in this life. Most such folks are really not worried about being Christian in this life because they’ve accepted the heresy that says Christ will forgive them even though they spent their lives making a fool of Christ by claiming to be Christian but preaching something He and the Apostles never preached, and even though they’ve slandered the Holy Spirit by denying the Holy Spirit is capable of protecting His Word. It’s very sad, heartbreaking in fact, but the fear of the Lord just isn’t in them because they’ve fallen into the worship of Self. Unfortunately for them, Christ said He will be telling such Self worshipers, “I never knew you”.
So much for a first and second admonition.
have a nice day