Posted on 06/25/2012 5:34:03 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Edward Yacuta felt rushed and nervous when he took a test to determine whether he was ready for college-level English classes at Long Beach City College.
The 18-year-old did poorly on the exam, even though he was getting good grades in an Advanced Placement English class at Long Beach's Robert A. Millikan High School.
Most community colleges would assign students like Yacuta to a remedial class, but he will avoid that fate at Long Beach. The two-year school is trying out a new system this fall that will place students who graduated from the city's high schools in courses based on their grades rather than their scores on the standardized placement tests.
Long Beach is in the forefront of a movement in community colleges nationwide to reassess the use of placement tests for incoming students.
The issue is especially acute in California, where about 85% of students entering a two-year college are assigned to remedial English classes and 73% to remedial math, mostly based on placement tests. Only about one-third of those students go on to earn an associate degree or transfer to a four-year college, according to California's community college system.
Remedial classes — sometimes referred to as developmental or basic education — typically don't offer credit that counts toward graduation. Many students must take multiple levels of remedial courses to catch up. And some research indicates that remedial courses don't adequately prepare students for more advanced courses.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Wow! Felony Fraud for falsifying government documents! 25 years to LIFE! I never considered this. It is about time we did!
This is a very **good** idea and I hope this idea of FELLONY FRAUD grows big, long, strong LEGS!
The better question is...."WHY aren't these kids already prepared for college?"
Of course....I already know the answer to that question also.
“Big Education”
1)make unlimited subsidized loans available to students
2)schools raise prices to absorb available cash
3)schools pay profs and admins excessive salaries
4)profs and admins donate to Democrats
and repeat....
It's not a Breitbart.com Web site ... yet.
“...”The system is expected to especially benefit black and Latino students, who are disproportionately assigned to remedial classes, said Long Beach City College President Eloy Oakley.”...”
Oakley espouses the logic of a gnat. By placing students in classes based on high school grades they probably never deserved to receive, Oakley is providing a virtual guarantee that the students will fail. I suspect if you deem failure a benefit, Oakley has developed the formula for it.
Unbelievable !
EODGUY
Years ago I worked at a medium sized Machine shop. Every year we would hire 5-7 "Engineers" and end up keeping 1 maybe 2. After numerous complaints from the people on the floor the company began a program. Each of these young men or women would about 8 weeks working with a senior person on the floor. This meant they spent about 4 months learning the ropes. The head engineer was very good and if we told him that one of his hires was not cutting the mustard they were gone at the end of the day.
The shortest time we had someone was about 4 hours. I sent him to the store room for some 2" 1/4 20's. He came back after 1/2 hour and asked 1/4 20 what? I went right to the head Engineers office.
Please add me to your ping list.
Businesses are NOT ALLOWED to give or use placement tests that flunk a disproportionate number of minority test takers (have "disparate impact"). The Supreme Court case on this was Griggs V Duke Power (1971)
Prior to this, companies could hire smart people out of high school. Now they have to use a college degree as an (expensive to the applicant) indicator of basic literacy.
We have to get rid of the EEOC and its enabling legislation.
That is what I thought. It sounded like they were using something else in the article. I could be wrong. Of course the national exams are still a joke. They (Penn State) accepted 16 credits, but the University still requires four years based on the sequence of courses to attain an engineering degree.
Duke power was using IQ tests and it was found that some whites working at the firm didn’t place high on the test nor were working as well as blacks, who while they didn’t place high on the test could do a superior job never the less.
Plenty of places use placement tests...you’ve heard of civil service exams or written exams one takes to be able to become firemen or go to police school...right? Many nursing jobs, as part of the application process might require simple calculations tests.
The key is, they can’t be written in such a way that excludes minirities unfairly.
Sure thing.
Yes, I know about civil service exams, as well as the lawsuits filed against departments which use them when the "correct" number of minority applicants do not get a passing grade. (Just google for (firefighter or police) exam lawsuit and you get 3 million results)
The way police and fire departments typically deal with such potential situations is by giving minorities "bonus points", or by picking the highest-scoring minorities to fill X% of the slots (even if the highest scoring minorities get test results well below those of rejected white male applicants).
If that company kept only one or two out five to seven hires, that indicates a problem with the selection process, don’t you think?
You put “engineers” in quotation marks. Were they engineers (i.e., graduates holding an engineering degree) or something else?
The firing of someone who didn’t know what a particular product was is interesting. Should he have known what the product was from his education? Nevertheless, from this instance, by arranging this guy’s immediate termination, you come across sounding like a righteous, non-forgiving individual.
All in all, this place sounds like the Metal Shop From Hell. Those fired from this hard-ass company ought to thank their lucky stars that they didn’t end working for this joint.
And you
Strike the last two words. They don’t belong to the post.
I should have been more specific. Many of these were paid interns. Situations like this give a company a chance to see if they have what it takes, and if they like our company. They would do various things from drafting to machine operation.
You put “engineers” in quotation marks. Were they engineers (i.e., graduates holding an engineering degree) or something else?
Some of them did have engineering degrees and some were working on getting the degree. There are a lot of people out there that think that having a piece of paper that says you have an engineering degree makes you an engineer.
The firing of someone who didn’t know what a particular product was is interesting. Should he have known what the product was from his education? Nevertheless, from this instance, by arranging this guy’s immediate termination, you come across sounding like a righteous, non-forgiving individual.
A 1/4 20 bolt is one of the most common bold sizes there is and is accepted nomenclature by even the most neophyte of mechanical persons. If you come out with a 4 year engineering degree and don't have a clue as to what it is there is a problem, if you don't know what it is an pretend you do that is a serious problem. If it takes you 1/2 an hour to come back and say that you didn't know what it was or couldn't ask someone near the supply room is a huge problem. There are 2 speeds when you work in a Machine shop 1) Lets take our time and get this bad boy right the first time and 2) HOLY SH!T we have to get our @$$E$ in gear and fix this NOW! When it is the second you don't have time to wonder if someone knows what a bolt designation is much less wait 1/2 an hour for them to decide they don't know.
As far as me coming off as a righteous non forgiving individual. You might be right. But keep in mind companies are in business to make money and keeping someone around that has a 4 year degree and doesn't know the basics is not doing my company a favor and is costing them money. Also if someone is that inept it is actually a kindness to get them out of that environment before they hurt someone else or themselves.
All in all, this place sounds like the Metal Shop From Hell. Those fired from this hard-ass company ought to thank their lucky stars that they didn’t end working for this joint.
The majority of our products were Polyurethane. We made products from the size of a nickle up to eight foot in diameter. I personally worked on the rollers used in the first color copiers for Kodak as well as the Launch seal for the MX Missile and the Maintenance seal for the Peacekeeper. The work was challenging and stimulating. Some people loved it and stayed for 20-25 years others left within a year. It was all a matter of whether or not it suited you or if you were cut out for it.
Just wanted to say that you made a good case for the environment in which you work(ed).
It doesn’t sound like the kind of place I’d want to be around, but that’s just me. Besides, I’m not a mechanically-inclined person.
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