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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; P-Marlowe
It seems to me that both of you are circling the never-ending "free will v. predestination" debate.

Being from the Arminian school of Calvinism, I would have to overcome lots of angst to re-open any calvin wars here on FR. Arminius, as many are aware, was a Calvinist with a very high regard for Grace and for God's Justice. Faith was the means by which God, who gives grace to all, avoids accusations of injustice and of evil.

For faith in Christ Jesus itself is a gift from God, the rejection of which leads to eternal separation from God. But, some argue against this graciousness of God because He offers it to humans whose fallen, depraved state can only see it if their spirits become quickened by God. However, Jesus is the light who gives light to every man who enters the world. In too many cases, He came to own, and His own received Him not.

These do not in any way take away from God's omnipotence, omniscience, or omnipresence.

Betty's concerns include:

If we have to consult the written word of the Holy Bible in order to understand how we can vote in this election without offending God

I don't believe she said well in that sentence what she meant. I can see no harm in consulting the Bible in any decision we must make. Nor is there really any harm in consulting Betty Crocker if I'm about to make a batch of pancakes, even though I'm fairly certain I've got the recipe down. Doesn't hurt anything at all. Betty Crocker will not be offended.

Betty's concern might also be that God can be accused of over-determining if He selects leaders of nations. I do not see any basis for such a concern since:

1. The Bible clearly shows God selecting leaders of nations, and

2. The Bible sees no violation of the 3 omni's or of grace or justice in those occasions when God selected leaders of nations.

So, this is somewhat afield of "Should we support Evil People who also Support Israel because God Blesses those who Bless Israel."

There is actually very good reason to consult the bible on that question. It is a difficult question. It is no shame to consult Betty Crocker for a recipe on, say, Classic Greek Moussaka.

1,227 posted on 06/25/2012 2:02:04 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; betty boop; P-Marlowe
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

Indeed, God establishes leaders - and nations - according to His own will. Daniel 2 is a clear example.

Moreover, I am absolutely certain that nothing can happen in the life of a Christian without either a) God's doing it, or b) God's permitting it.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

And again,

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:4-5

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19

So in my view, it's not whether we end up with an anti-Israel, anti-Christianity, pro-Islam Obama administration part deaux - that cannot happen to Christians without God's permitting it - but rather it's whether we sought God's will in the first place. Which is to say: were we loving Him, believing Him and trusting Him in casting our votes?

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:1

God's Name is I AM.

1,228 posted on 06/26/2012 8:55:21 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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