Posted on 06/01/2012 4:03:38 AM PDT by IbJensen
Do you believe that parents should be able to spank their children? Do you ever express that opinion to others?
If so, then you could be sent to prison. Sadly, that is exactly what happened to one pastor up in Wisconsin recently. A minister named Philip Caminiti was sentenced to 2 years in prison for simply teaching that parents should spank their children when they misbehave. Please note that Caminiti was not accused of spanking anyone or of physically hurting anyone.
He was put in prison simply for his speech. He was put in prison simply for what he was teaching others to do. Whether you agree with spanking or not, this should be incredibly sobering for all of us.
Increasingly, speech is being penalized in the United States. Much of the time, the focus of the attacks by the forces of political correctness is on religious speech. If this trend continues, many of you that are reading this article might be put in jail for the things that you say in the coming years.
When many of us were growing up, once in a while our parents would take out a belt or a wooden paddle and give us a paddling on the behind when we did something wrong.
Was there anything wrong with that?
Of course not.
Yes, there is real child abuse that goes on out there, but in the vast majority of instances spanking does not do any lasting physical harm. Rather, it benefits the child because it helps them learn what is right and what is wrong.
I know that when I got a licking on the behind as a child that helped me to remember not to do the same thing again.
But Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi was absolutely horrified that some parents would actually use a wooden spoon to spank their little children when they misbehaved.
Perhaps that judge should actually try to spank someone with a wooden spoon some time. You simply cannot do much damage with a wooden spoon.
Instead of going after the parents who were doing the spanking, prosecutors chose to go after the pastor instead. They claimed that Caminiti was "the spoke in the wheel of this conspiracy".
Even after Caminiti leaves prison, he will be forbidden from having any contact with his old church....
Caminiti will be on extended supervision for six years after his release from prison. Despite objections on constitutional grounds by Caminiti's lawyers, Sumi ordered that he not have any contact with the Aleitheia Bible Church and have no leadership role in any church.
What in the world is happening to this country?
Criminal predators are literally eating the faces off of people, and yet authorities want to go after pastors that are encouraging their congregations to follow the teachings of the Bible?
Have we stepped into a really bizarre episode of The Twilight Zone?
Sadly, this is not the only example of how our free speech is under attack these days.
Up in New York, a new bill was recently introduced that would outlaw all "mean-spirited and baseless political attacks".
I think that would cover a whole lot of people that leave comments on my blog.
The following is how a recent article by Kurt Nimmo described what this new law would require....
New York state government is attempting to pass the measure in both the Senate and the Assembly. The legislation has been referred to the Codes Committee in the Senate, and the Government Operations Committee in the Assembly.
Both proposals are identical and would effect messages posted on message boards, blogs, social networks, and “any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.” The law would require websites to post email addresses for “removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted.” Those demanding the removal of content they find objectionable, however, would have their anonymity protected.
“Had the internet been around in the late 1700s, perhaps the anonymously written Federalist Papers would have to be taken down unless Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay revealed themselves,” notes David Kravets, writing for Wired.
Will we soon see laws such as this nationwide?
Will all blogs and websites soon be at the mercy of the politically correct police?
Up in Buffalo, New York it is apparently now against the law to hand out Christian tracts on a public sidewalk. At least that is what one man was told recently when he attempted to hand out tracts outside of an Italian heritage festival. The following is from a recent WorldNetDaily article....
While handing out tracts to willing recipients on a public street during a public festival, Owen was approached by a police officer who declined to identify himself but told him that the Buffalo Police Department is “the law” and he should stop handing out tracts.
According to the lawsuit: “Subsequently, another police officer, Officer Slomka, arrived on the scene. She quickly informed Owen that they could not hand out tracts in the festival and explained that the prohibition was ‘by our orders.’ Owen asked for her name, and she replied: ‘Slomka, write it down.’ Owen advised that he believed the tracts to be free speech; nonplussed, Officer Slomka reiterated that they couldn’t hand out tracts there and had to go outside of the festival area to continue with their expressive activity.”
Then, “Owen inquired as to whether they would be arrested if they continued to hand out tracts in the festival area, to which, Officer Slomka replied: ‘Yes.’”
That almost makes me angry enough to take a trip over to Buffalo and hand out tracts right outside the police station.
Even if you do not ever distribute literature, you should be alarmed at how our freedom of speech is being eroded.
The truth is that whenever anyone has their freedom of speech attacked it is an attack on all of us.
If we are not careful, we are going to end up just like Canada.
At one high school up in Canada recently, a student was suspended from school for a week for wearing a shirt with the following message....
"Life is wasted without Jesus"
The student was told that the shirt was "hate talk" and that he would be suspended for the rest of the year if he tried to wear it to school again.
They are coming for our free speech ladies and gentlemen.
They are not going to be satisfied until they have either shut all of us up or put all of us in prison.
It is imperative that we all stand up for free speech while we still can. Once our freedom of speech is gone, the loss of the rest of our freedoms will only be a matter of time.
BS, he knew what he was advising was illegal because he told them to never do it in public where there would be witnesses. If I was on the jury I would have had no problem convicting him.
This is no 'precedent'. Conspiracy is against the law even if you are a preacher.
So you are "sick of libs" but you are perfectly OK with laws that make spanking a child a felony?
And you are also perfectly OK with laws that make preaching the biblical mandate that spanking is a necessary part of parenting a felony conspiracy should parishioners heed such biblical advice?
Sick of libs? I think not. I think you are one of them.
I am perfectly OK with laws against conspiracy to commit serious (evil) crimes like these in secret. I am perfectly OK with outlawing YOU beating your two months old with a spoon until they bruise, and advising you to do it in private so no witnesses can report you, or those giving you advise on how to do it and get away with it.
RE :”Sick of libs? I think not. I think you are one of them.”
What are you Sadomasochistic child molester like the pervert you are defending? I am ‘sick-of-sicko’s making idiot arguments defending perverts.
This is why it is so difficult to reason with liberals and people who think like liberals. You are reacting emotionally to this case rather than viewing it from a logical and impassioned perspective. If a parent were to abuse a two month old, there are clearly laws against that and the parents should be prosecuted. However this case sets a bad precedent in that the defendant did not actually abuse any child, but in his capacity as a pastor gave biblical counsel to parents (albeit probably bad biblical counsel) to utilize a "rod" in the correction of their children.
In essence this is historically sound biblical advice. If the parents were to "beat" a child to where it is harmed, then there are laws protecting that child which do not interfere with the right of a parent not only to use reasonable means of correction but to exercise their freedom of religion in the upbringing of their children.
In this case this pastor did not personally use a spoon or a dowel against any child. The question then becomes whether giving biblical counsel to people that confirms the Bible's clear admonition to parents to use methods of corporeal punishment to correct their children and impart wisdom is a criminal act of conspiracy when a parent takes that advice or perhaps misconstrues that advice as a mandate to beat the hell out of their two month old. In any case where such corporeal punishment causes harm to the child, the person causing such harm should be prosecuted. But there is a line between using corporeal punishment which "imparts wisdom" and that which actually causes physical harm. Whether the parents went over that line was not really addressed in this case as far as I can tell since the parents were not prosecuted. The pastor was prosecuted for conspiracy to commit whatever crime the parents might have committed.
While this pastor may be a certifiable psycho the precedent set here is dangerous.
Preach the gospel, go to jail.
Is it too far of a stretch to assume that ultimately telling a child that their homosexual tendencies are wrong and the homosexuality is an abomination before God will be considered "Child Abuse" and that preachers will be going to jail for preaching this biblical truth? I think not.
So can you tell me if your parents ever spanked you? If so, would you testify against them in a court in order to send them to prison?
How dense are you? You admit that these parents he advised CLEARLY broke the law, and he clearly advised them to do in the details of the crime in secret, and yet you still argue that his act in the conspiracy to commit the crimes against infants should be legal. HE DIDN'T JUST QUOTE THE BIBLE. He SPECIFICALLY told them beating two months old out of the view of witnesses so they bruise was what the Bible instructed.
If a preacher tells someone to poke out his wife's eyes as punishment IN SECRET claiming that he got it from the Bible, that does NOT make it legal for him to advise her to do so. But your idiotic argument says it is.
You really have to be sick to defend such horrific actions, if you are even serious. And you calling those who oppose them a liberal means nothing,it's just standard crackpot behavior
If a women gets an abortion doctor to kill her baby does that mean the woman is innocent because she only asked for it? STUPID!!
” He SPECIFICALLY told them beating two months old out of the view of witnesses so they bruise was what the Bible instructed.”
Then he is a lunatic!
You know if the child abuse was so bad why is only the pastor being tried, what about the actual abuser?
This came out in the trial.
The problem we have here is that a few just like to read the title of the post and believe it without even looking at the actual case.
I was suspicious immediately and dug up a couple of sources that actually have some details, rather than trust that title; unlike a few others that want it to be true just so they can post more Chicken Little endless drama declaring the end of the world . The title is BS as the discription in the post.
Where did you read that?
He wasnt just accused of it, he admitted giving that advice on the stand. Amazing he even testified,
How can he conspire to abuse a child if there is no abuse? Since he was convicted of child abuse but he did not abuse the child, presumably someone else did. Why is the other person not up on charges?
It's called Conspiracy.
Can a preacher specifically tell his members that the Bible instructs them to kill their wives, or to poke out their eyes as punishment, and to do it when no witnesses are around to see it(this part I know is not in the Bible) , and not be held partially responsible for the outcomes when a bunch of them do? Let's use some common sense.
Where do you get the idea that only he was charged? This bogus post?
Have not seen any evidence of any one else charged. Do you have any info?
His own brother was convicted of multiple counts of specifically abusing(not just spanking) his own kids, as this preacher recommended.
This editorial post doesn't mention that does it?
Yea I read the story! I guess you’re a fan of the nanny state where gubment has to ensure sweet outcomes. I’m glad this preacher didn’t tell his brilliant congragents to jump off a damn bridge.
If their rebellion is manifested by being an active member of the occupy movement, then yes I suppose I would.
Hahahahahaha.....fair enough.
Disciplining our children, and painfully, is still found in the New Testament. Stoning is not. Christians have a NEW Contract (testament) with the Lord, and the OLD is not binding as law.
Hebrews 12:9-11 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (ESV)
That aside, this is a first amendment case, and it is a case about equal treatment under the law.
As a first amendment case, it clearly is religious in nature: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof.
Try as you like, the government has involved itself in dictating to a church and imprisoning because of religious teaching, and that being religious teaching that is not so far outside the norm for many sects and divisions of religions of all types.
Next, there is equal treatment under the law.
First, as Marlowe has ably pointed out, it is really curious that the folks, who in the privacy of their own homes punished their children, are not being held accountable by the system. It is a pastor, who in teaching corporal punishment, is teaching it as religion, and is teaching a belief that arguably is not outside the parameters of much past teaching by other religious leaders.
For this "conviction for teaching", the pastor received 2 years in prison for "religious speech".
Just a one year sentence sampling to compare with 2 years for a "religious speech" crime:
LAWRENCEBURG, Tenn. -- A 77-year-old Lawrence County man accused of paying to have his wife killed in 1992 will serve one year in jail after entering a no contest plea in Lawrence County Circuit Court, officials said. Phillip Rigling, 77, 341 Jackson Ave., Lawrenceburg, pleaded no contest to solicitation to commit felony murder and solicitation to commit aggravated robbery, Lawrence County District Attorney General Mike Bottoms said.
Lufkin woman, guilty of negligence in death of 2-year-old Hudson boy, sentenced to year in state jail
NOGALES, Ariz. - A Nogales teenager has been sentenced to one year in prison for the shooting death of a Nogales High School student last July.
A Kirkland woman who formerly owned the Houghton Lakeview Adult Family Home was sentenced to a year in jail Friday for the preventable death of an elderly woman. Patricia Goodwill, 62, pleaded guilty to second-degree criminal mistreatment of 87-year-old Jean Rudolph. Rudolph, who suffered from Alzheimer's Disease and was wheelchair bound, died in 2008 of bronchopneumonia and bone infection caused by untreated ulcers.
U.S. District Judge Andrew S. Hanen sentenced former Cameron County District Attorney investigator Jaime Munivez to 12 months and one day on two charges of extortion.
It's fairly easy, looking at the above, to conclude that the judge had some kind of agenda.
No child was entered into the case either dead or severely injured (if any were entered as evidence at all!)
No parent actually swatting with a spoon was charged. And even if they had, based on the one year sentences above, what should that sentence have been?
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