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To: Sherman Logan
You said about Jefferson:

Difficult to imagine a better description of a slaveowner. A parasite indeed.”

In 1785, Thomas Jefferson established his Land Ordinance, which included a provision for the abolition of slavery.

It was defeated by a single vote in Congress.

"Parasite?

Thomas Jefferson developed an anti-slavery clause in the first draft of the Declaration. The clause was removed by John Adams (MA), Benjamin Franklin (MA), Robert R. Livingston (NY), and Roger Sherman (CT).

The parasites were living in Massachusetts, New York, and Connecticut.

Ever wonder why?

42 posted on 05/28/2012 8:32:56 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
In 1785, Thomas Jefferson established his Land Ordinance, which included a provision for the abolition of slavery. It was defeated by a single vote in Congress.

Actually, I believe this ordinance applied only to the new territories north of the Ohio, and of course the Northwest Ordinance a few years later did abolish slavery in this area. So I fail to see how the failure of this provision made a bit of difference.

Obviously, Congress under the Articles of Confederation had no authority to make laws regarding slavery inside a State.

In the Declaration Tom put in a clause blaming the British for slavery, as if it had been forced on America. It was removed in committee, but if not there is zero doubt Congress as a body would have approved it.

How were the middle and northern state gentlemen you reference parasites? In what way were they living at ease by the forcible exploitation of others?

John Adams was an attorney. Benjamin Franklin was a wealthy retired printer and businessman. Livingston and Sherman were lawyers and politicians.

45 posted on 05/28/2012 9:53:01 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: PeaRidge; rockrr
In 1785, Thomas Jefferson established his Land Ordinance, which included a provision for the abolition of slavery. It was defeated by a single vote in Congress.

That would have forbidden slavery in the Northwest Territories. The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 did just that, after Jefferson had left for France. There's no indication that he supported abolishing slavery in the states or in the nation as a whole.

Thomas Jefferson developed an anti-slavery clause in the first draft of the Declaration. The clause was removed by John Adams (MA), Benjamin Franklin (MA), Robert R. Livingston (NY), and Roger Sherman (CT). The parasites were living in Massachusetts, New York, and Connecticut.

That was more an anti-slave trade clause than an anti-slavery clause as such. And it's pretty bizarre, blaming George III for slavery and for "exciting" the slaves to revolt and murder the people he had "obtruded" tham on.

According to Jefferson himself, it was delegates from South Carolina and Georgia who wanted the clause deleted. He also blamed Northerners who voted with them. Roger Sherman was probably who he had in mind. I see no evidence that John Adams had anything to do with killing the clause. Is that something you got from the musical?

In later years Jefferson became a determined opponent of substantive anti-slavery efforts, seeing them as Northern aggression against Virginia, and caring more about slights to Southern honor than about human freedom.

The point surely is that none of the Founders was perfect. None of their ideologies was perfect in all things. The thinking of Hamilton or Jefferson or Adams or Madison can't be translated directly into a political program today without a lot of adapting and tinkering.

We can learn from them and be inspired by them, but ought to be aware of the differences between their day and our own. I guess the reverse is true as well. What seems to us now to be right might not have been possible in their era either.

84 posted on 05/29/2012 2:39:59 PM PDT by x
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