Your point being? Are you trying to say something about the status of the children between conception and birth, or what? When they’re born is when it becomes of interest to us. At that point, if they qualify the law applies to them and they are citizens. Therefore, the law applies to citizens, and your arguments to the contrary are null.
No, my arguments are not "null". You're the one saying the children are citizens before they're born when the law says "at birth", not before birth. Therefore, the children can't be naturalized citizens, via that particular section of USC 8, until they are born so no citizens are covered by the law. Aliens, and the children of aliens, are the subject, not citizens or the children of citizens. Are aliens citizens of this nation? No! The children are naturalized at birth, not before birth, via positive laws and under the proper uniform rules of naturalization Congress was empowered to create.
Are you schizoid?
No, but I believe you are.
This is a law about when the children of aliens can be considered citizens, and you just said the children are citizens when they’re born.
Yes, the children are naturalized citizens when they're born, not before they're born. The children aren't citizens until they're born. The parents are still aliens. The law doesn't govern citizens.
I'll give you a partial victory here...The only instance where I would say that the law might govern a citizen is when you have the situation we have here with an alien and a citizen parent. The child is still the child of an alien and falls under USC 8 as both parents aren't citizens.
Until the child is born the child is not a citizen. Either way, only one parent is a citizen and the child is naturalized at birth under positive law and can't be a natural born citizen as resort to USC 8 must be taken for citizenship.
We’ve established the particular section is called “nationals and citizens from birth,” or something.
All we've established is that it still falls under USC 8.
“You’re the one who believes that USC 8 applies to citizens when it doesn’t”
It applies to the children of aliens who qualify to be citizens, therefore it applies to citizens. You know it does, and are carrying on I don’t know why. I suppose by now it’s a matter of pride, and the argument must be won by endless delaying tactics.
“No, my arguments are not ‘null’. You’re the one saying the children are citizens before they’re born when the law says ‘at birth’, not before birth.”
Huh? When did I say they were children before they’re born? I don’t believe in my life I’ve ever considered the citizenship status of the unborn before today, and upon consideration I say “Who cares?” Their status prior to birth is not the issue. Obviously the law applies to them at birth, which is when they become citizens. Therefore, the law applies to citizens, specifically citizens who born to aliens who become citizens at birth by meeting certain qualifications.
“Therefore, the children can’t be naturalized citizens, via that particular section of USC 8, until they are born so no citizens are covered by the law.”
You’re seriously beyond me now. I have no idea what you’re getting at, unless it’s, like, you become a citizen at birth, but the law can’t apply to you until a couple seconds after your born. But since by that time you’re a citizen and everyone knows it, the law somehow doesn’t apply to you because it’s about aliens and their chidren.
What?!?! We’re in cloud cuckoo land. The law applies to you at birth when, bam!, you’re a citizen. The law and your citizenship apply to you at the same time, as it were. There’s no lacuna between your birth and when the law can apply to you that excludes you from consideration under the law.
“Aliens, and the children of aliens, are the subject, not citizens or the children of citizens.”
But, as I’ve said about 47 times now, the children of aliens can be citizens. Therefore, the law applies to citizens.
“Are aliens citizens of this nation? No!”
No. Once again, though, their children can be.
“The children are naturalized at birth”
There’s no such thing, but for the limited purposes of this argument, okay. let’s say they are. They’re naturalized by this law, and are citizens. Therefore, this law applies to citizens.
“not before birth, via positive laws and under the proper uniform rules of naturalization Congress was empowered to create.”
Actually, if they’re born after the passage of the law, yes, before birth. Not that they are citizens before birth; you have to be born to be a citizen, as everyone agrees. But the groundwork for you being a citizen automatically at birth has been established before your birth.
Whatever, what relevance does this have to our disagreement? Before birth or after birth, it’s about people getting to be a born citizens according to a few qualifications. Therefore, it applies to citizens: the citizens who are born according to its qualifications.
“Yes, the children are naturalized citizens when they’re born, not before they’re born. The children aren’t citizens until they’re born. The parents are still aliens. The law doesn’t govern citizens.”
Yet again, I don’t get it. Once they are born, they are citizens under this law. Therefore, the law applies to citizens. No more of this rigmarole about born and unborn.
“I’ll give you a partial victory here...The only instance where I would say that the law might govern a citizen is when you have the situation we have here with an alien and a citizen parent.”
Well, yes, that’s what the law the article brought up is about. We aren’t arguing about some other law, so I don’t see how you can call it “partial.” That’s the whole of the argument.
“The child is still the child of an alien and falls under USC 8 as both parents aren’t citizens.”
Yes, that’s why the article referenced USC 8. We knew that all along.
“Until the child is born the child is not a citizen.”
True. No one has any citizenship status until they are born.
“Either way, only one parent is a citizen and the child is naturalized at birth under positive law and can’t be a natural born citizen as resort to USC 8 must be taken for citizenship.”
Like I said above, everyone must reference positive law to be a citizen of something, natural born or otherwise. Without the positive law that is the U.S. Constitution there is no such as a U.S. citizen under the Constitution. To say nothing of U.S. citizens under the Articles, who also must reference the positive law that is the Articles of Confederation. But that’s another argument.