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To: IbJensen

The “natural born citizen” two-parents-plus-birth-on-US-soil argument has failed in every court that’s heard it. It’s why the Supreme Court has turned down without comment all such cases that have been appealed to it. And it’s why the Vattel birthers do not have the slightest hope of ever prevailing on the two-citizen-parents-plus-US-soil claim in any US court of law.

The Court in US v. Wong Kim Ark found — 6 to 2 — that the children of resident aliens were themselves both “natural born” and “citizens.” In so doing — and in specifically mentioning in their majority opinion the fact that natural born citizenship was a qualification for President — they made clear that they found such US-born citizens Constitutionally eligible to run for, and serve as, President.

Vattel lovers must get a grip on things. Our founders relied upon Blackstone and the English common law, not this Swiss person. You are a citizen of the soil regardless of your parents and that is a FACT. Besides how does one PROVE the citizenship of his parents? By your birth certificate? LOL! Your existance in most cases begins in a hospital. They gather the information from the mother and issue a birth certificate. No one verifies the citizenship of the mother or the father. They can say anything they want. The mother can claim any father she wants. You Vattel fanatics, can you conclusively prove that Abraham Lincoln’s parents were natural born citizens? If all you’ve got is Abe’s BC, that is no proof. The only think you can prove about Abraham Lincoln is that he was born in the U.S. which makes him a natural born citizen. I’m going out on a limb here because I don’t really know if he had a BC; wasn’t he born in a log cabin? My point is a birth certificate can say anything it wants to and the only thing it proves is where a child is born....that is the only indisputable fact.

In Obama’s case I believe his BC is a forgery. If he was born in HI then he is constitutionally eligible to serve as president. If he was born in Kenya like I suspect then he is not.


4 posted on 04/28/2012 8:41:02 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: New Jersey Realist

New Jersey Realist, your interpretation of the 14th Amendment is wrong. I refer to Leo Donofrio who clear the confusion up a long time ago.

Moreover, the Constitution itself leads to the definition by the process of elimination. There is the qualification for President and Vice President; i.e., natural born citizen. Then there is the qualification for Senator and Representative; i.e., “seven years a Citizen.” That is not too hard to parse. What do you think. If the definition were the same, why have the modifier “natural born” in front of Citizen? Having a looser, broader definition of citizenship for the highest offices in the land would make no sense. Instead “natural born” points a more restrictive, more limited, definition of citizenship that identifies those Americans who have no divided loyalties by either being born on foreign soil, or having parents with citizenship in some country other than America. That also was the main point of the 14th Amendment: Allegiance; complete, pure, unsullied, unquestionable allegiance to just America.

The other hint is found by comparing two immigration acts: The ones of 1790 and 1795. The one from 1790 recognized that, for example, a child born on a ship overseas to American parents would be recognized as a natural born citizen. In 1795, they realized their mistake, and said that such a child was instead a Citizen, not natural born.

So, sorry New Jersey Realist, try again.


6 posted on 04/28/2012 8:54:02 AM PDT by bioqubit
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To: New Jersey Realist
The Court in US v. Wong Kim Ark found — 6 to 2 — that the children of resident aliens were themselves both “natural born” and “citizens.”
No they didn't. If they had you would have put up the text stating they did so for all to see.
You have no text.

Our founders relied upon Blackstone and the English common law, not this Swiss person.
They depended on far more than Blackstone. And why would they rely on court cases from a judicial system they revolted against?
They incorporated the concept of English common law, not the decisions themselves.

It's sad that you're so narrow minded in your understanding that you have to twist history to exclude some of the greatest minds of political philosophy, like Locke, Calvin, Hobbes, Vattel and many many others, just to fit your preconceived notions.

8 posted on 04/28/2012 9:09:27 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: New Jersey Realist

“Our founders relied upon Blackstone and the English common law, not this Swiss person.”

George Washington’s library book returned, 221 years later

“The former president borrowed The Law of Nations by Emer de Vattel on 5 October 1789, according to the records of the New York Society Library.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/may/20/george-washington-library-book


9 posted on 04/28/2012 9:12:59 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: New Jersey Realist
Our founders relied upon Blackstone and the English common law, not this Swiss person.

Just as an example to show you how ignorant your statement is I give you this...
Founding Father's Library - The Most Commonly Read Books of the Founding Generation

The Founding Fathers of the American Constitution made it clear what authors and texts had influenced their own thinking on the idea of liberty. Donald S. Lutz has examined the speeches, letters, journalism, and theoretical works of the founding generation in order to draw up a composite "library catalog" of that generation. His list includes most of the texts on the Goodrich Seminar Room list and a few more besides. Lutz's "top 40" texts (actually 37) by frequency of citation by the founding generation are listed below.

Another source of information about what books influenced the thinking of the American founding generation are the lists of recommended books they themselves drew up. Both John Adams and Thomas Jefferson drew up a list of key texts in letters they wrote and, in the case of Jefferson, he actually donated his personal library (twice) to Congress to create the beginnings of what is now the Library of Congress and also drew up a catalog for the University of Virginia library.

Well surprise, surprise...#29 Emmerich de Vattel

13 posted on 04/28/2012 9:21:02 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: New Jersey Realist
"...like Locke, Calvin, Hobbes, Vattel..."
My pardon, Calvin wasn't one of them.
With so many others who influenced them I slipped up in recalling the names.
17 posted on 04/28/2012 9:25:35 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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