Denial ain't just a river in Egypt - Republican conservatives can't handle the truth about Romney

Tom Hoefling for President 2012 ^ | April 27, 2012 | Tom Hoefling

[Clintonfatigued]

Most of us know that the Establishment has given us a lemon for a candidate. Romney is a political chamelion who has no core beliefs other than his own ambition. My home state has a primary on May 8 and I won’t be voting for him in the primary. I still haven’t given up on a brokered convention.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Assumed what???

[D-fendr]

The “gap” is..

I think your statement here illustrates or exemplifies my point.

[D-fendr]

morally relativistic arguments.

I don't argue for moral relativism as I believe it is a false position, philosophicalyl and metaphysically. Moral relativistism is a term with a quite different meaning than you use in this context; and I believe, is therefore a non sequitur in response to our debate here.

[EternalVigilance]

Your belief that one candidate’s obvious bad traits justify voting for another candidate with obviously bad traits, illustrates mine.

One other thing: I’ve been involved in campaigns for a couple of decades, and I can say with a high level of certainty that a candidate whose supporters have to admit every five seconds that he stinks to high heaven probably isn’t going to fare well in the election.

Which sort of moots your whole argument, you know?

[EternalVigilance]

Lesser of two evils arguments are the epitome of moral relativism.

[D-fendr]

No, look up moral relativism.

All things in relation to each other are relative. But moral relativism is quite a different meaning and concept.

[EternalVigilance]

Let me restate my position:

I do not believe this free republic can possibly be saved until and unless conservatives return to a principled position, one based solely on the nation's founding moral premises, and refuse to any longer compromise them for anyone, or for any perceived politically expedient reasons.

"If, to please the people, we offer what we ourselves disprove, how can we afterwards defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God."

-- George Washington

A vote for Mitt Romney is the exact opposite of that.

And it isn't just that it empowers that lying socialist. It's that it corrupts those who have compromised to support him.

With his impending nomination, we're already seeing that corruption showing up all over the place. Including FR.

Nutritionally you are what you eat. Politically you are who and what you endorse. There's no avoiding it.

[EternalVigilance]

A distinction without a difference. It amounts to exactly the same thing: the denial of self-evident truth, the destruction of reason, the abandonment of moral principle.

[Galactic Overlord-In-Chief]

The sole reason, as you cited, is the Constitution Party’s unfortunate prior paleo/libertarian stance on foreign policy/defense, but I think with Goode’s nomination, it moves it away from that to a more reasonable and sensible stance.

I sure hope so, but from the sound of this statement right here, Goode may have changed his stances at least somewhat to accommodate them. Quote: "Goode says that he regrets his vote for the Patriot Act and now wants it repealed. He also wants to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan." http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/04/virgil-goode-speech-on-c-span/

[donmeaker]

We did start a conservative party. It is the Republican Party. Help us get/keep control of it, and get more conservative candidates in the House and Senate (and various state offices), please.

[Elsie]

When the anti-mormon posters come in, I’m out.

Why is that?

---

  "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent"

 

 (The Seer, p. 255  Orson Pratt )

[Elsie]

A Republican President, even one with many imperfections, would be infinitely better than a second Obama term. Possibly; but would he be ETERNALLY better?

[Elsie]

If the facts are wrong please refute them.

Good luck with THIS!

[Elsie]

New campaign strategy: Vote Mitt because he could be worse.
After all, he's not Vlad the Impaler, Genghis Khan, or Hitler.

Vote Mitt - he could always be worse.

---

Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.

 

1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.

 

2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
Example: Convert or die.
 
3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.

 

4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?

 

5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
 
6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.

 

7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
 
8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.

 

9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.

 

10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
Example: Do you still beat your wife?

 

11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.

 

12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.

 

13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.

 

14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.

 

15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.

 

16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.

 

17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.

 

18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.

Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.

[Elsie]

Do you also propose an IQ test for voters?

So many vote their EMOTIONS instead of their LOGIC.

Just like Saturday horse race bettors.

[Elsie]

Yeah, I was worried you wouldn’t get the humor.

This happens to me all the time.

Both as sender and recipient.

[Elsie]

Really, how many times is this red herring argument gonna be thrown out ?

Until reply #235...

[Elsie]

You have a bumper sticker here!

[Elsie]

Maybe Romney is just further judgment on our nation from God which we mightily deserve IMHO.

INDEED!