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To: itsahoot
the GOPe for doing this

The party didn't make the field weak and didn't make voters split the notRomney vote. The weak field and lack of unity in opposition got us here.

The party ain't the problem. Re-electing Obama fixed nothing before will fix nothing next time.

265 posted on 04/16/2012 2:06:11 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
The party didn't make the field weak and didn't make voters split the notRomney vote.

You don't think that the GOPe openly supporting Romney and his Millions that were available for is campaign had anything to do with discouraging competetion. Right.

299 posted on 04/16/2012 2:53:04 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: D-fendr
The party ain't the problem.

Yes they are, and if we have to kill it then so be it. Romney will not win.Noone listened when they pushed Dole on to the ticket, GW only won because Of Clinton, but then they came back with that vocal right winger(brf) McCain who would have made McGovern look presidential if he had not reached out to Palin.

In any case if the party is not the problem, then it is a problem that elections can't fix.

315 posted on 04/16/2012 3:10:06 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: D-fendr
The party ain't the problem.

What the he!!??

The PARTY gives us McCain and tells us to take a pill and support him in the name of conservatism....Then with the greatest chance in history to knock 'em dead with a true conservative to clobber 0bama and retake the Whitehouse they give us Romney and tell us to take a pill and support him.

The party IS the problem and they are going to lose the conservative support before November because of their "our way or the highway" attitude and that will be the death of the GOP once and for all.

Romney is nothing but a lying liberal political hack who is in it for himself and he is attempting to suck every penny he can out of "true" conservatives only to destroy conservatism and most are falling for it like the little suckers they are.

Romney is a guarantee of 4 more years of 0bama and the "suckers" will blame true conservatives for sticking to heir convictions and voting conservative!

358 posted on 04/16/2012 3:47:51 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: D-fendr
The party didn't make the field weak and didn't make voters split the notRomney vote.

That's flat out not true. The party is the one that went all in for Myth from the get go, with money, their hack consultants and ad men, with media coverage and the punditocracy. Money has been central to Mitt's success, he used the money from the GOPe to outspend Newt and destroy anyone that stood in his way. He will never do to Obama what he did to Newt, Santorum, Perry and Bachmann.

Even more significantly than his money, though was the GOPe's control over the process. Ever since Reagan stole the RNC from the Bush family, the Republican elites have worked desperately to ensure that no conservative could ever possibly wrest the nomination from the elites again. How do they do that? Easy, look at the timing of primaries and the rules for securing delegates. Conservatives, and the GOP in general, are located in the southeast and states like Texas, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho. There are purple states like Iowa and Ohio. And then there are solidly blue states, like in New England, Minnesota, California, the Pacific Northwest.

What would a party that wanted to field a candidate representative of its values do? Well, it would hold a primary process in which the core of its base was most prominent in choosing the candidate. States like Texas and Alabama would lead the way, both in temporal terms and in terms of the number of delegates awarded. A state like California, that has ZERO chance of voting for the Republican candidate, should not have much say in who the Republican candidate is. A state like Texas, that is GUARANTEED to vote for the Republican, should have an outsized say in who that will be.

But, ever since GHW Bush's loyal service to the Gipper earned him the nomination, and thus control of the RNC, the RNC has diligently worked to ensure that the process is front-loaded with liberal states and with states from the Northeast, where the GOPe has its base. The RNC ensures that delegates from liberal states get the same value as those from conservative states.

This was the case to some extent before Reagan, but not so pronounced, which is why he was able to get through the early primaries and secure the nomination down the road against an RNC that was decidedly against him. He also had some advantages that are not available to candidates today, due to financing laws. He had an independent source of funds and was able to use alternative ways to get his message out, due to his ability to communicate. It would be very difficult to get any conservative nominated today.

Thus, the GOPe has a lock on the nomination. That gave us Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain and now, probably, Romney. I said last time that McCain was my last RNC hold my nose vote, and that was only because of Palin. That if the party could not be reformed in a way that allowed a conservative to get the nomination, then the party had to be abandoned by conservatives.

Well, the party has proven that it is not about to allow a conservative to get the nomination. Whatever it takes, the RNC will do it to ensure that the progressive wing of the party gets the nomination. For conservatives, that means that there is no future in the Republican party, at least at the Presidential level, and with Boehner and McConnell running things, at the Congressional level, too. The question is at what point do we dump the RNC. Now, or next time. Or the time after that? Or maybe in 2024?

I decided in 2008 that 2008 was my last vote for a Progressive. I am sticking with that at the Presidential level, and voting solidly Republican down the line. For this election, I am hoping for a third party to rise up. This thread has certainly exposed the reasons why it is needed, and why it has a chance to supplant the GOPe.

398 posted on 04/16/2012 4:30:09 PM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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