[central_va]

What if a state(s) started to print their own money and forming voluntary infantry regiments with the governor as their C-in-C?

[central_va]

Freepers crack me up. I love hearing how if FedGov™ was dissolved or seceded from there would be anarchy. This is a REPUBLIC and I would argue every state would be much better off as an independent country. After about 20 years maybe some alliances could be formed and maybe the whole thing reconstructed, but reconstructed the right way not the way it was done last time.

[Baynative]

The constitution was designed to create co equal branches of government in order to contain or restrict it’s power. The fact that there are challenges to our governing document shows that we are all under attack from enemies both foreign and domestic.

[Lurker]

Dear Judge,

I’ll refer you to Amendment the 2nd.

Have a nice day.

L

[NTHockey]

150 years ago, we had a President from Illinois who twisted the Constitution and waged war to free the slaves. Today we have a president from Illinois who rejects the Constitution and wages war to make us all slaves.

The outcome of the Civil War was that the states did not have the power to break the covenant with the federal government. The net effect of that is that we the people are left with no choice but revolution.

Politicians have made this bed, they will then have to lie in it.

[Psalm 144]

CWII heads up.

Thoughtful article, thoughtful thread.

[Lucky9teen]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

THOMAS JEFFERSON, Declaration of Independence

[Manic_Episode]

Bookmark

[Jack Black]

CWII Ping!

About the CWII Ping List The CWII Ping List is short for Civil War II. It is NOT a list of people advocating another Civil War in America. It is a list of people who are interested in the parallels between the Civil War (or War Between the States, if you prefer) and our current situation, or more generally are noting the references to a 'coming Civil War' that are made in the press, or in comments on articles here on Free Republic.

FR rules do not permit advocating for the overthrow of the Republic, and I am not aware of anyone doing so on the list. Still many do see that as the political climate worsens we may be heading in a direction that makes such a conflict all but inevitable, particularly if other avenues for resolving our differences are taken away. Such as widespread vote fraud by leftists making elections meaningless, or a small cadre of judges over-ruling all attempts to end destructive policies over the clear will of the people.

The correct keyword tag for the Civil War II ping list is "CWII".

Please Freep Mail me to get on the list

[servantboy777]

Oh man......opened a can of worms there.

Uncle Sugar will be a listening in boy’z. Watch what’ya say!

[Only Sane Man]

“If”??

[Towed_Jumper]

As the late political essayist Joseph Sobran once said: “The Constitution no longer represents a serious threat to our form of government.”

[loveliberty2]

"But the Chief Justice says, 'There must be an ultimate arbiter somewhere' True, there must; but does that prove it is either party (branch)? The ultimate arbiter is the people of the Union, assembled by their deputies in convention, at the call of Congress or of two-thirds of the States. Let them decide to which they mean to give an authority claimed by two of their organs. And it has been the peculiar wisdom and felicity of our Constitution, to have provided this peaceable appeal, where that of other nations is at once to force."

—Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:451

"But, you may ask, if the two departments [i.e., federal and state] should claim each the same subject of power, where is the common umpire to decide ultimately between them? In cases of little importance or urgency, the prudence of both parties will keep them aloof from the questionable ground; but if it can neither be avoided nor compromised, a convention of the States must be called to ascribe the doubtful power to that department which they may think best."
—Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:47

Part of the genius of America's Founders lay in their anticipation of various threats and dangers to liberty through efforts on the part of imperfect persons in positions of power in government to subvert or to unconstitutionally change the Constitution's limits on their power.

Jefferson, here, points out the Constitution's own provision for any challenge from the branches of government to assume unlawful powers. "A convention of the States," a constitutional provision involving "the People," is and was the ultimate solution.

According to Justice Story, "the People" are the only "KEEPERS" of the Constitution.

The following excerpt of Concluding Remarks from Justice Story's "Commentaries on the Constitution" might be instructive for all citizens of 2012:

CHAPTER XLV.
CONCLUDING REMARKS.

"§ 1903. We have now reviewed all the provisions of the original constitution of the United States, and all the amendments, which have been incorporated into it. And, here, the task originally proposed in these Commentaries is brought to a close. Many reflections naturally crowd upon the mind at such a moment; many grateful recollections of the past; and many anxious thoughts of the future. The past is secure. It is unalterable. The seal of eternity is upon it. The wisdom, which it has displayed, and the blessings, which it has bestowed, cannot be obscured; neither can they be debased by human folly, or human infirmity. The future is that, which may well awaken the most earnest solicitude, both for the virtue and the permanence of our republic. The fate of other republics, their rise, their progress, their decline, and their fall, are written but too legibly on the pages of history, if indeed they were not continually before us in the startling fragments of their ruins. They have perished; and perished by their own hands. Prosperity has enervated them, corruption has debased them, and a venal populace has consummated their destruction. Alternately the prey of military chieftains at home, and of ambitious invaders from abroad, they have been sometimes cheated out of their liberties by servile demagogues; sometimes betrayed into a surrender of them by false patriots; and sometimes they have willingly sold them for a price to the despot, who has bidden highest for his victims. They have disregarded the warning voice of their best statesmen; and have persecuted, and driven from office their truest friends. They have listened to the fawning sycophant, and the base calumniator of the wise and the good. They have reverenced power more in its high abuses and summary movements, than in its calm and constitutional energy, when it dispensed blessings with an unseen, but liberal hand. They have surrendered to faction, what belonged to the country. Patronage and party, the triumph of a leader, and the discontents of a day, have outweighed all solid principles and institutions of government. Such are the melancholy lessons of the past history of republics down to our own.

"§ 1904. It is not my design to detain the reader by any elaborate reflections addressed to his judgment, either by way of admonition or of encouragement. But it may not be wholly without use to glance at one or two considerations, upon which our meditations cannot be too frequently indulged.

"§ 1905. In the first place, it cannot escape our notice, how exceedingly difficult it is to settle the foundations of any government upon principles, which do not admit of controversy or question. The, very elements, out of which it is to be built, are susceptible of infinite modifications; and theory too often deludes us by the attractive simplicity of its plans, and imagination by the visionary perfection of its speculations. In theory, a government may promise the most perfect harmony of operations in all its various combinations. In practice, the whole machinery may be perpetually retarded, or thrown out of order by accidental mal-adjustments. In theory, a government may seem deficient in unity of design and symmetry of parts; and yet, in practice, it may work with astonishing accuracy and force for the general welfare. Whatever, then, has been found to work well in experience, should be rarely hazarded upon conjectural improvements. Time, and long and steady operation are indispensable to the perfection of all social institutions. To be of any value they must become cemented with the habits, the feelings, and the pursuits of the people. Every change discomposes for a while the whole arrangements of the system. What is safe is not always expedient; what is new is often pregnant with unforeseen evils, and imaginary good.

"§ 1906. In the next place, the slightest attention to the history of the national constitution must satisfy every reflecting mind, how many difficulties attended its formation and adoption, from real or imaginary differences of interests, sectional feelings, and local institutions. It is an attempt to create a national sovereignty, and yet to preserve the state sovereignties; though it is impossible to assign definite boundaries in every case to the powers of each. The influence of the disturbing causes, which, more than once in the convention, were on the point of breaking up the Union, have since immeasurably increased in concentration and vigour. The very inequalities of a government, confessedly founded in a compromise, were then felt with a strong sensibility; and every new source of discontent, whether accidental or permanent, has since added increased activity to the painful sense of these inequalities. The North cannot but perceive, that it has yielded to the South a superiority of representatives, already amounting to twenty-five, beyond its due proportion; and the South imagines, that, with all this preponderance in representation, the other parts of the Union enjoy a more perfect protection of their interests, than her own. The West feels her growing power and weight in the Union; and the Atlantic states begin to learn, that the sceptre must one day depart from them. If, under these circumstances, the Union should once be broken up, it is impossible, that a new constitution should ever be formed, embracing the whole Territory. We shall be divided into several nations or confederacies, rivals in power and interest, too proud to brook injury, and too close to make retaliation distant or ineffectual. Our very animosities will, like those of all other kindred nations, become more deadly, because our lineage, laws, and language are the same. Let the history of the Grecian and Italian republics warn us of our dangers. The national constitution is our last, and our only security. United we stand; divided we fall.

"§ 1907. If these Commentaries shall but inspire in the rising generation a more ardent love of their country, an unquenchable thirst for liberty, and a profound reverence for the constitution and the Union, then they will have accomplished all, that their author ought to desire. Let the American youth never forget, that they possess a noble inheritance, bought by the toils, and sufferings, and blood of their ancestors; and capable, if wisely improved, and faithfully guarded, of transmitting to their latest posterity all the substantial blessings of fife, the peaceful enjoyment of liberty, property, religion, and independence. The structure has been erected by architects of consummate skill and fidelity; its foundations are solid; its compartments are beautiful, as well as useful; its arrangements are full of wisdom and order; and its defences are impregnable from without. It has been reared for immortality, if the work of man may justly aspire to such a title. It may, nevertheless, perish in an hour by the folly, or corruption, or negligence of its only keepers, THE PEOPLE. Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them."

[veracious]

“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense, which is paramount to all positive forms of government...”
— Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers No. 28.

“There is no position which depends on clearer principles than that every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.”
— Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers No. 78.

“Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force”
— Thomas Jefferson

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
— Will Durrant about ancient Rome

[Dead Corpse]

The Constitution CREATES the government. Not the other way around. We The People are the final arbiters of enforcement for the Constitution.

If the government rejects our charter, then they should be abolished wholesale and with extreme prejudice.

And yes, we are at that point already.

[WPaCon]

“What if?”

The rejection of the Constitution goes back way further than Obama’s violations.

The Constitution set up a great system of government, but this question has been nagging at me lately: Just how great is the Constitution really if it can’t get anyone to follow it?

[Zionist Conspirator]

I wish "Constitutionalists" would stop carping about the Alien and Sedition Acts. They were passed to protect our new country from subversion by agents and fellow travelers of Jacobin France.

Conservative worship of Thomas Jefferson has got to stop.

[mo]

We have ALREADY been destroyed. It has been so subtle, and will become so obviously thorough in the next administration.

The American Treasury has been pillaged. By both sides of the aisle. Our government is literally out of control. There iare no Medicare or Social Security funds remaining . In March it turns out we financed almost 60% of our spending.

Practically speaking, our enemies have vanquished us. There will simply be no way to maintain carrier battle fleets in action, over 150 overseas garrisons,, and maintain peace at home.

Rome learned this the hard way 1600 years ago. Rome died incrementally-the first “sack” occurred in 410....the final in 455 AD.

The first of the USA was, arguably, October 3rd, 2008 with passage of TARP......

[EternalVigilance]

Our Constitutions are the instruments of the people, not of the lawyers

"Every word employed in the Constitution is to be expounded in its plain, obvious, and common sense, unless the context furnishes some ground to control, qualify, or enlarge it. Constitutions are not designed for metaphysical or logical subtleties, for niceties of expression, for critical propriety, for elaborate shades of meaning, or for the exercise of philosophical acuteness or judicial research. They are instruments of a practical nature, rounded on the common business of human life, adapted to common wants, designed for common use, and fitted for common understandings. The people make them, the people adopt them, the people must be supposed to read them, with the help of common-sense, and cannot be presumed to admit in them any recondite meaning or any extraordinary gloss."

-- Joseph Story, Constitution (5th ed.) 345, SS 451.

[AngelesCrestHighway]