Replies

Forget a “Patrol Frigate” based on the NSC. The Navy is wedded to the LCS: 10 of the LSC-1 build and 10 of the LCS-2 build. The LCS is a “swoose” — part swan and part goose without the ability to do either job moderately well. Meanwhile, the long-serving FFG-7 class frigates are rapidly going away and there is NO replacement for them.

The LCS (at least in LCS-1 class) is overweight and all classes are UNDERARMED. This is not peculiar to USN ships because the majority are underarmed. Part of the reason comes from the Blue Water mindset of the SWO community. The SWO community has been spoiled for years operating under the layered defense umbrella of the carrier or amphibious strike group. However, the closer you get to the shore: (1) the less standoff distance you have and (2) your reaction time decreases exponentially. {Don't believe it? Consider the USS VINCENNES (CG-49) shoot down, by accident, of the Iranian Airbus airliner during the Persian Gulf War. This is what happens when distances and reaction times are compressed.]

Quite bluntly, the SWO community hasn't figured out that Green Water (and Brown Water) operations are magnitudes more dangerous places than their experiences have taught them. If the USN gets into a shooting war in Green waters, we are going to get a lot of expensive gray ships sunk or badly damaged and take a lot of killed and wounded. I have debated this with many correspondents, both in the Navy and DoD, and we share this bleak assessment. However, at the highest levels of the Navy and DoD there is LOTS of denial.

I see your point and agree. To me it’s not unlike the Air Force and their devotion to supersonic air superiority fighters and using them for air-mud. The A-10 is probably the most devastating ground attack aircraft ever devised and is totally unloved by the Air Force. There is no sense of proportion or seemingly any recognition that different platforms are needed in different environments.

I’m not going to sweep the skies with A-10s and I’m not going to force open the sea lanes with frigates, but when the Marines hit a beach they need fire support from a ship that give it and take it close in. And blue water ships are vulnerable to small boat threats when they are in skinny water. That’s why you see mighty ships like the USS George H.W. Bush being escorted down Thimble Shoal channel by a little 87 foot WPB. Trouble is, a WPB doesn’t have the range and endurance to run with the big boys across oceans. A frigate does.

"Forget a “Patrol Frigate” based on the NSC".

I can't. I think it's the RIGHT ANSWER.

These ships are about the same size as the old Adams Class Destroyers and can carry out sea control operations independently against just about anyone. The crew is but 150men. Has the 76mm rapid-fire gun along with Phalanx...and VLS for a mix of AAM and Harpoon.

They're cheap compared to EVERYTHING ELSE we are building and still better than just about any other ship built by anybody else.

The only way I would augment them is with a second gun of the 5"/62 caliber gun. I would also add a second version without helo pad but with another 24 tubes of VLS.

They'll sell a bunch of these.

The LCS (at least in LCS-1 class) is overweight and all classes are UNDERARMED. This is not peculiar to USN ships because the majority are underarmed. ... Quite bluntly, the SWO community hasn't figured out that Green Water (and Brown Water) operations are magnitudes more dangerous places than their experiences have taught them. If the USN gets into a shooting war in Green waters, we are going to get a lot of expensive gray ships sunk

I've noticed that too. Big ship, lots of men, relatively little firepower compared to comparable WW2 vessels. We don't really have anything to cope with a huge wave of hundreds of speedboats coming all at once.

I would like to see several more CIWS-type guns on that ship that could be manually targeted against small dodging targets.

Take a look at the armament of a late-WW2 PT boat:

"two to four Mk-VIII torpedoes, two dual 50cal machine guns in the turrets, a 40mm Bofors cannon mounted aft, a 37mm cannon far forward, flanked by two 20mm cannons and an assortment of other weapons such as deck mounted mortars, additional 30 and 50 caliber machine guns including two multiple 5" rocket launchers." With a crew of up to 17, everybody appeared to have a heavy weapon except the guy steering the boat.