Can Cops Arrest George Zimmerman for Murder in Trayvon Martin Case?

Opposingviews ^ | 24 March, 2012 | Eugene Volokh

[Tatze]

Two hypothetical situations for you (or anyone).

You have a gun. You start a fight with someone. During the fight, he gets the upper hand and is beating you up. You take out your gun, shoot and kill him. Self Defense or not?

Or

You have a gun. You ask a guy a question and he turns on you and starts a fight. During the fight, he gets the upper hand and is beating you up. You take out your gun, shoot and kill him. Self Defense or not?

If who started the fight is a determining factor, then that is the problem here with this case. The only witness to the start of the fight is Zimmerman. There are witnesses to the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him up at the time of the shooting, but does it matter who started the fight?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

I did not realize it was 3AM when this took place. That makes the excuse that I heard as to why Martin was out bogus. That it was halftime from watching a basketball game and he was going out to get skittles for his little brother. I suppose that he could have been watching re-runs of a previously played game, but it seems highly unlikely and could be easily checked as to what games were being re-run on the TV that night and whether it was halftime at those games during that time. If they had TVR, I suppose it could be checked for the game, etc..

I will say one thing, if I’m out for some reason at 3 AM and someone is following me, I might double back and jump them also. I can see Martin being justified in attacking Zimmerman. Needless to say, there’s a lot to sort out in this case and if I was any politician, I would stay away from any judgement of this case in either direction. Of course, it seems that Obama hasn’t learned his lesson from the beer summit.

[USS Alaska]

When the cops show up, do they have ‘probable cause’ to arrest me?

Depends in which state the shooting occurred.

In my state, PA, you have a good chance of not being charged {unless it's in Philly and they are black and you are white}.

If you are in MD, you are going to jail for having a gun, and maybe five counts of 2nd degree murder. Same with IL, and I'm not sure about the rest of the states.

[TexasFreeper2009]

I think I heard somewhere that Zimmerman had lost site of Martin when last talking to the operator. I suspect that Martin was hiding nearby at that point and jumped out and attacked Zimmerman.

Not that it really matters. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, he would still have the right to defend himself if during the fight he felt that his life was in danger.

example:

I start a fight with someone.. he gets me on the ground and starts to choke me to death... I don’t have to let him kill me just because I started the fight, I have the right to defend my life even if I started the fight.

[Alice in Wonderland]

It was a bit after 7:00pm and it was dark out.

[PeteB570]

Where are you two getting 3:00AM? Everybody else is saying early evening.

[Kenny Bunk]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

No facts have been shown that contradict George Zimmerman's self defense claims

Enough said. Please refer all posting on this case to the City Manager's Report and updates. They outline all that is known at this time about the case.

Above all, do not yield to Left-Wing Provocation by arguing this case in public. The City Manager's concise reports are models of calmness and rationality. No amount of shouting will convince those who need to believe otherwise, or others like Mr. Obama and his election team who wish to use this case as a political tool.

[kanawa]

It happened between 7 and 7:30.
3AM was the time the investigation at the scene completed.

[Tatze]

And why were these two out at 3am in the morning?

The shooting did not occur at 3am. According to the police report, the police were first dispatched at 7:17pm.

[PapaBear3625]

In a neighborhood that has suffered a string of burglaries, which in the Sanford Police Dept reports have the suspects all being reported as black, then if I'm in the neighborhood watch and at 3am I see a young black man in a hoodie walking in the rain, I'm going to be suspicious.

[USS Alaska]

...while screaming "I'm going to kill you Mother F****r!!!"...

Source/link, please.

Joe, you didn't invent that quotation, did you?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

[org.whodat]

Then how did the kids girl friend hear zimmerman, just before the kids phone went dead, and it was a full five minutes later when the kid was shot?? And the charges against zimmerman will be manslaughter, 1 or 2.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Create race issues and then paint the GOP candidate as a mean cracker."

This is one thing that is really pissing the Dems off. Zimmerman is not a cracker!! His name certainly sounds like a cracker. I guess he's an honorary cracker for the purposes of this killing.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"I keep hearing this but how do we know that Zimmerman was not headed back toward his (car?) and was jumped by Martin? I think that if the police believed Zimmerman drew down on Martin Zimmerman would be in jail right now."

Well, this part is certainly murky right now. I would think an investigation would prove or disprove whether he was following Martin, fairly easily. If his cell phone has a gps in it, we'll probably be able to figure it out.

[Candor7]

Is it true that Martin was shot in the back?

[kristinn]

This took place around 7:15 p.m., not three on the morning.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Where are you two getting 3:00AM? Everybody else is saying early evening."

EBH mentioned that and I took him at his word. I had not heard that previously.

[Cboldt]

-- I start a fight with someone.. he gets me on the ground and starts to choke me to death... I don't have to let him kill me just because I started the fight, I have the right to defend my life even if I started the fight. --

Just to complete the picture, in your hypothetical, you might be found justified in defense of your life (it'll be a fact-specific inquiry, up to the jury), but you will still have committed a tort or a crime, that of starting a physical altercation.

[baddog 219]

It was the Skittles man! It was the Skittles!

[org.whodat]

Once again, in the police report, the kid is talking on the phone to his girl friend, he tells her someone is following him, she says she heard zimmerman and the phone went dead, it was five minutes later before he was killed. I find it hard to believe that a 140 pound kid beat the crap out of zimmerman, who was 80 lbs heaver for five minutes. Actually I would be surprised if he was on top any longer than it took for the guy to see him.