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To: muawiyah
He is not entitled to defend himself until Zimmerman does something. Following someone is not a crime, attaching someone is.

As of yet we do not know who attacked first.

69 posted on 03/21/2012 4:58:02 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83
I do not have to wait until you hit me to start defending myself. You follow me in a car when I'm going about my business in a lawful manner, then try to get my attention, I will be ON ALERT INSTANTLY.

If you get out of that car and approach me ~ that's all I need. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS getting inside my comfort zone. If I'm up against a wall there's no choice but to attempt in anyway I can to get away from you even if it means bowling you over.

It is a fair presumption that if I am encountering a young Hispanic male at night who I do not know, and he's trying to stop me from doing what I want to do, that he means me NO GOOD, and that he's probably armed and may kill me.

Fur Shur neighborhood watch folks should not behave like your typical armed robber out for a stickup.

We have a neighborhood watch ~ had it for 3 decades. This is a multi-ethnic area with people from 35 different countries. We've never had a killing on the street.

71 posted on 03/21/2012 5:04:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ratman83

Really? Are you serious?

Kid is walking home with some skittles and tea, that he bought at local convenience store. There is nothing to suggest the kid was up to anything more than that.

Zimmerman notices the kid and phones the operator and tells the operator explicitly that he wasn’t going to let the kid get away and gets out of his vehicle to confront the kid.

And you still don’t know who likely attacked first?

The law defines first contact of any sort as attacking. So much as a touch on the body is defined as an attack. How many kids, when confronted by a man with a gun are going to throw the first punch?


130 posted on 03/21/2012 8:22:02 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Ratman83
He is not entitled to defend himself until Zimmerman does something. Following someone is not a crime, attaching someone is.

As of yet we do not know who attacked first.

1. Strictly speaking, Florida law typically does not allow you to use deadly force (even in self defense) if you "provoke" the use of force against yourself, which is a bit broader than "attacking" someone. In other words, if you "provoke" someone into using force against you (I'm sure there's caselaw dealing with what "provoke" means in this context), then even if the other guy throws the first punch, you lose your "self-defense" argument.

2. Zimmerman's 911 call provides some evidence of Zimmerman's conduct, and his state of mind at the time of this incident. Zimmerman did not simply observe Martin and report what Martin was doing. Rather, Zimmerman followed Martin, even after being told not to do so, and then tracked him down when he lost sight of him. He also said things like "these a**holes, they always get away" and "f*cking [punks?]." It's circumstantial evidence (pretty much everything is in a case like this, with no eyewitnisses and only one survivor), but Zimmerman's state of mind and conduct during the 911 call make it sound like he was the aggressor.

Whether Zimmerman committed a crime is an issue that will be dealt with by the courts. Leaving aside the legalities, the simplest fact of this case is this: had Zimmerman had simply Neighborhood Watch best practices and observed and reported rather than confronting Martin, this tragedy never would have happened.

152 posted on 03/21/2012 8:52:48 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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