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To: PreciousLiberty
That’s great, except for the minor detail that there’s no such thing as an air-to-air drone at this point.

There will be. There are things in testing and have been for a long time - keep an eye out on all of the major aerospace publications and websites, a lot of things are being worked on. A few years ago, the USAF released an unclassified "Unmanned Aircraft Systems Flight Plan" that looks ahead to 2047 or 2050, and they do plan on UAVs taking over air-to-air combat, and other nations do as well.

Back in 2002, there were Predators equipped with Stingers flying over the no-fly zones of Iraq, and the AF even tried engaging an Iraqi fighter or two. Unfortunately the avionics were not up to the task and the one publicized engagement resulted in the Predator's Stinger locking onto a missile that an Iraqi jet fired rather than the Iraqi jet itself. There actually was more going on, but I'm just referring to the publicized events.

It's nothing new - back in the 1970s, the AF rigged some existing fighters to be unmanned and then had them go up against manned fighters. It wasn't pretty. When you take the human out of the cockpit, it's amazing some of the maneuvers an aircraft is capable of, even an aircraft designed for humans.

It’s going to be hard to replace having human eyes evaluating the situation, and human judgement pulling the trigger. In a engagement with a “real” enemy (China or Russia) the electronic warfare and space environment will likely prevent any kind of remote communication with our vehicles.

The environment that you are talking about makes it just as difficult regardless of whether there is a human in the cockpit or not. Besides, the environment you are talking about is the kind of environment that would probably be best suited to cruise missiles that don't rely on outside guidance, or incredibly stealthy UAVs. There is a reason why we sent so many cruise missiles into Iraq, and the advances we've made since 1991 and 2003 are substantial.
13 posted on 03/05/2012 2:36:02 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr
they do plan on UAVs taking over air-to-air combat, and other nations do as well.

I don't see how, in a GPS/satcom-prohibited environment. And that is exactly the capability the Chinese have been working on assiduously with their direct-ascent ASAT system.

The environment that you are talking about makes it just as difficult regardless of whether there is a human in the cockpit or not.

Not really. USAF pilots did just fine over Vietnam without satnav or GPS. They had LORAN and various other beacon systems and inertial guidance, and that's about all they needed to get the job done. HOBOS helped, and they needed to be able to use TV remote control for that -- but the Germans didn't need it in 1943 when they sank the Italian BB Roma with a radio-controlled, optically-guided (by the operator) guided bomb.

Besides, the environment you are talking about is the kind of environment that would probably be best suited to cruise missiles that don't rely on outside guidance, or incredibly stealthy UAVs.

UAV's will be cruise missiles if you remove GPS guidance and communication, or interrupt the session the way the Iranians are supposed to have done . Think someone can fly a UAV by dead reckoning via remote control? How about without commlinks with the vehicle?

All this stuff is setting us up for a big lesson in how, the more bells and whistles you need to do the job, the more Achilles' heels you bring with you to the contest, and the more sh&t you have available to break down at the most inconvenient time possible.

Rule One of electronics on expeditions and missions: Half your sh&t doesn't work any more, the minute you leave the end of your driveway/clear the jetties/clear the runway.

14 posted on 03/05/2012 5:37:44 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: af_vet_rr
It's nothing new - back in the 1970s, the AF rigged some existing fighters to be unmanned and then had them go up against manned fighters. It wasn't pretty.

Are you saying the unmanned fighters kicked @ss on the manned ones? I find that hard to believe.

Still, sever the comm links and presto, you've got yourself a cruise missile flying on inertial guidance and computerized topo maps.

18 posted on 03/06/2012 4:35:16 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: af_vet_rr
It's nothing new - back in the 1970s, the AF rigged some existing fighters to be unmanned and then had them go up against manned fighters. It wasn't pretty. When you take the human out of the cockpit, it's amazing some of the maneuvers an aircraft is capable of, even an aircraft designed for humans.

At Holloman in 1970's when I was there we had a buttload of F-102s and Navy Skynights converted to drones.

They blowed up real good when confronted by Phantoms and Eagles.

What drones are you talking about?

23 posted on 03/08/2012 3:19:54 PM PST by hattend (Jesus wants me to make churches pay for abortions. - Barack Obama)
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