[DH]

Many years ago the HORROR was the explosion of a Cobalt Bomb!

A single bomb would make the earth sterile and everyone would die. Where is the cobalt bomb today? I guess the hype is now the EMP bomb.

Has the EMP bomb actually been tested over a large area? Do they really know exactly what its capabilities are? Have they ever exploded one in the atmosphere?

I would venture NO. Once again, the lemmings are running in fear over something that has not been proven as destructive as the fear mongers state.

[DCBryan1]

Exactly right. I bet I am one of a handful of Freepers that have actually worked on, around, and in nuclear weapons with the DOE NNSA/OST. EMP is real, however its effect is exaggerated.

Case in point, when people mention nuclear winter or EMP, I just casually mention the 2,000 nuclear weapons explosions under water, underground, in space, high altitude, low altitde, etc from the Sahara, to the Indian Ocean, the Artic, the Pacific, etc. Every continent less S. America and Antartica has had a nuke blown up on it, and guess what, we are still here.

We know that EMP is real, and its effects are real, however sending society back to 1837 ain't gonna happen. With that being said, I do have preparations for energy outages via Communist infiltrator POTUS's. That is alot bigger danger than an SS-18 flying over the pole and doing a high altitude, 25MT detonation.

[Tenacious 1]

Nice. You beat me to it. See my post at #18 above.

I said essentially the same thing with less passion.

[JRandomFreeper]

EMP effect was discovered during 1960s nuclear bomb testing. One bomb burned out part of the Hawaii power grid, over 800 miles away. That bomb was not specifically designed to create EMP. There are bombs today that are designed to cause EMP.

/johnny

[Kartographer]

A Cobalt bomb though possible is impracticable. A nuclear bomb built to maximize EMP effect is both possible and practical. i.e. Neutron Bomb

[Afterguard]

Good point. While we were not as dependent on electronics at t he time, we need to remember that in the late 60’s and early 70’s, both the Soviets and the US conducted near-earth space detonations of nucs. No major disruptions were experienced as far as I know. I’m skeptical, but would rather not actually have the experience.

[PA Engineer]

I would venture NO. Once again, the lemmings are running in fear over something that has not been proven as destructive as the fear mongers state.

It is a very real problem, specifically to "long line antennas" representing power lines and pipelines. Particularly vulnerable are substation transformers and SCADA systems. Vehicles are unpredictable. In tests some have been damaged and others have not. Some needed to have the computers reset by simply disconnecting the battery and reconnecting again. Some will still be driving if there is fuel.

Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack PDF

[katana]

I seem to recall that the single largest atmospheric nuclear test ever conducted was by the Soviets and was a stratospheric detonation of something around 50 megatons yield. IIRC it created a second sun in the sky over the USSR for several minutes and was never tried again. The question is whether that test, which was far larger than anything that would likely be used in an EMP attack, has any relevancy since it happened before the digital age. Just don't know. But this whole "EMP will send the US back to the 19th century" sounds suspiciously like the Y2K and AGW drumbeat.

Meanwhile, owning a bicycle or an older spark plug, carburetor, and distributor function car, having a good stock of water, canned goods, and dried foods, an assortment of firearms and ammunition, firewood, and some basic hand operated tools are good planning for any eventuality. Military digital hardware was supposed to be made "EMP hardened" many years ago but who knows whether or to what extent that was accomplished? How much of that found its way for the sake of manufacturing efficiency into consumer goods? If electronics are so vulnerable to EMP why don't the things fail all the time when they are carried through all the electromagnetic fields that surround us on a daily basis?

[CodeToad]

“I would venture NO. “

They have. It simply didn’t end the world as we know it. EMP has been blown out of proportion by the survivalist drama queens. EMP simply is a rather weak force generated by all nuclear bombs, and while it can affect some long wire devices, it simply will not destroy all things electronic or electrical. The most I would prepare for in the event of an EMP burst is perhaps the electricity going out for a few days if it actually managed to do any damage to my electrical distribution system. The problem is only two countries have the ability to launch a nuke over the US; the US and the old Soviet Union States. Not much to worry about. If the Soviet nuke us they are going for broke with lots of nukes hitting all over the place and EMP is the least of our worries.

[Iron Munro]

Has the EMP bomb actually been tested over a large area?

An "EMP Bomb" is really just a nuclear or thermonuclear bomb.

It is a documented and well known fact that nuclear and thermonuclear explosions create an EMP effect. In fact, the man-made version of the phenomena became known by observing the aftereffects of nuclear explosions.

An EMP event, manmade or natural, is a very real threat.

The military and government has, and is, spending untold millions trying to sheild critical systems from EMP effects.

[RinaseaofDs]

They actually have built and detonated one in the 1960’s, and it worked pretty well. It knocked power out in Hawaii, I think and caused various and sundry issues.

Like anything else, a SINGLE EMP detonation (discharge?) likely wouldn’t wipe it all out, but it would do damage.

Irreversable damage? No.

Best place for EMP in the order of battle is to move it up front and use it while blinding the other guy’s comms satellites using something that isn’t going to pollute low-earth orbit with millions of bits of high speed junk that will eventually take out your satellites.

After that, you pretty much have to invade at that point. If not, then don’t bother and just start making neutron bombs in sufficient quantities that you aim to depopulate the US so that you can invade them. The neutron bombs have the EMP effect you are looking for as well.

Nobody’s going to set of a supermassive EMP device and then leave us alone in the 17th century. They’ll use it and then invade.

You’d have to want to take us for just the mineral goods, and then discount all the intellectual property and human capital to zero. To much cost and too little return.

You’d have to take us intact and convince our scientists that there’s a new boss and they are better being alive and productive than brave and dead.

Colonialism is an anachronism. If China had enough water to cut loose Tibet, they likely would. It’s a pain in the neck. So much cheaper to control nations through debt instruments than through force of arms.

[LibLieSlayer]

Shhhhhhhh... you are inviting attack here on Apocalypse Central.

LLS

[hiredhand]

Yeah... what about that Cobalt Bomb?! :-) Sheesh... people wait on hilltops for the Mother Ship, and then commit suicide when it doesn't show. Y2K was going to be "the big one", then Planet-X, and Nibiru... a super-volcano at Yellow Stone.... the end of the Mayan calendar... financial destruction... a killer asteroid, bird flu, or EMP!!! :-) There's a new term coined lately for people who live wrapped up in these things. They're called "DoomTards" :-)

We've been watching a National Geographic series called "Doomsday Preppers". We can relate to some of the people they interview. Some are just coo-coo for cocoa-puffs though. :-) But they've ALL got their own theories about how the end is going to come, and they all have cataclysmic theories.

EMP is on their list though, but there is a lot of disinformation about this subject. It's "relatively" easy to build an EMP weapon out of used microwave oven parts. Reaching peak oscillation and power output is tricky though because the device self-destructs as a result (they ALL do!). It "could" damage a LOT of ESD sensitive equipment in a populated area, but it's limited to a couple of hundred feet in a relatively narrow beam. Directing EMP is a problem. It's the same problem as with directing microwave transmissions for telecom applications. It's tough to "contain" and direct. It's why microwave transmitters and receivers have a "tuned" waveguide in the mix.

The thing that most people don't know about though is exactly WHY our gov't gets their panties in a wad every time some unfriendly nation creates a little dinky missile delivery platform with only a few hundred mile range. I mean why be concerned at all? Especially if it's too small to carry a "substantial" warhead? I'll tell you why. A relatively low yield (in the kiloton range) warhead on one of these missiles could do a LOT more damage if used appropriately than if simply aimed at something and permitted to "go bang"... so to speak. At "about" 32 miles above the surface of the earth, the earth's atmosphere changes in composition and structure. This was observed during testing back in the 1950s in the Pacific when we detonated test nuclear weapons (google "hardtack") at altitude. One of the phenomena observed was defined by a man named Compton and the phenomenon has since been called "The Compton Effect".

The basic principle behind the Compton Effect is that the resulting high frequency magnetic pulse is greatly magnified by certain particles in the ionosphere, and generally travels along the earth's magnetic field lines. The Compton Effect causes a small nuke detonated at altitude to be a HUGE problem on the surface because it permits the electromagnetic wave to go a LOT farther and be a LOT stronger.

The reason the gov't gets worried about small delivery systems (such as the one that N. Korea paraded a couple of years ago) is because it could be used to put a low yield nuke at altitude and then detonate. Depending on how small it was, and time of day, we possibly might not even see or hear it. A cargo ship could carry it to somewhere outside the international boundary and let-her-go! Then scuttle the ship...of course. :-)

Imagine if you will a cargo ship at 18S 524352.03 E 3872886.87 N...which is "about" 50 miles east of NC. A 15KT yield weapon detonated at altitude at approximately 17S 767649.57 E 3937923.23 N...which is "about" over Raleigh NC...would have traveled WELL under 200 miles using these locations. The estimated area of damage would range from central to northern Georgia, up to northern Virginia, and "possibly" over into Ohio. VA, NC, and SC pretty much get "toasted", or at least so does everything with a doped semiconductor inside of it. Not even the early 1950s transistors will survive it, much less the milivolt and microvolt sensitive MOSFETs and JFETs. You can damage those things simply by handling them incorrectly! Remember, the electromagnetic wave will "tend" to follow magnetic lines of the earth. Something like this would also severely damage or destroy satellites over a lesser radius. The actual extent of the damage would be determined by the yield of the weapon and atmospheric conditions at the time.

EMP is a valid concern. But not one I'm willing to lose sleep over. If you want to read something that will make you wonder, read about CINC (Cigarboy In Chief) William Jefferson Clinton tearing down the DoD TEMPEST program back around 1996.

As for me, I'll be holed up in my bunker with a stockpile of beans and weenies, my chainsaw and a goodly supply of fuel...waiting for the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. :-)

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Has the EMP bomb actually been tested over a large area? Do they really know exactly what its capabilities are? Have they ever exploded one in the atmosphere?

Actually, they have tested EMPs in the atmosphere and they're more destructive than were originally thought.

One, a 1.4 Megaton hyrdogen bomb was exploded 250 miles over Johnston Island. It caused such a large EMP that it knocked out electronics and communication in Hawaii and New Zealand, almost 1500 miles away.

It also knocked out 3 satellites in low earth orbit and the resulting radiation belts eventually knocked out one third of all low-earth orbit satellites.