Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

Camp Pendleton Patch ^ | February 10, 2012 | Roy Rivenburg

[brityank]

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

15-year veteran of Sheriff's Department says Sgt. Manny Loggins was about to drive away, so he opened fire to prevent a perceived danger to Loggins' daughters. One other deputy was nearby at the time.

The deputy who shot and killed an unarmed Marine sergeant after a predawn traffic stop said the Marine was acting so "irrationally" that it seemed dangerous to let him drive away with his two daughters, an official said Friday.

So when the Marine -- later identified as Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. of Camp Pendleton -- climbed back into his GMC Yukon and turned the ignition, the deputy opened fire, according to Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Amormino stressed that he was merely relaying statements made by the deputy to investigators and "not defending" what happened.

"This was a very tragic event, we all feel bad for the family," Amormino said.

The deputy, a 15-year veteran, told investigators he was parked at San Clemente High School writing reports when he spotted Loggins driving "at a high rate of speed" before turning into the lot and crashing into a gate near the football field.

The deputy pulled up behind Loggins and radioed for backup. It was about 4:40 a.m. Tuesday.

Loggins, 31, stepped out of the Yukon and walked off into the darkness toward the football field, ignoring a series of commands made by the deputy. His two daughters, ages 9 and 14, remained in the vehicle.

Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

"About five minutes later, Loggins walked back toward the Yukon," Amormino said.

The deputy issued "a new set of commands" which Loggins again didn't follow, Amormino said.

"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children," Amormino said. "In the deputy's mind, it was unsafe for [Loggins] to drive away with the girls."

Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviewed," he noted.

Amormino said this account came from the deputy who fired the shots. Another deputy was nearby, but "I don't know what he saw," Amormino said.

Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

"Whatever the truth is will come out," Amormino said, noting that "a complete and thorough investigation" would be conducted by the Orange County District Attorney's office, which investigates all officer-involved shootings.

Results of the autopsy on Loggins probably won't be made public for a few weeks, after toxicology tests are finished and the sheriff reviews the findings, he said.

Loggins' friends and colleagues have questioned official accounts of what happened, describing the Illinois native as a kind and faith-filled Christian family man who would never disobey authorities or jeopardize the safety of his daughters.

[ArmyTeach]

Have you done your homework?

a. All reports indicate that the gates were normally open. The SGT probably did not expect them to be closed.
b. I have seen photos of the scene to include most of the front end of
Loggins’ vehicle. Very little if any evidence of damage, suggesting that the gate was not ‘crashed’
c. Loggins was highly respected and trusted by his superior officers and was a role model for the marines
who worked under him.
I give more credence to the military’s assessment of SGT Loggins than to the
obviously self-serving CYA report of the deputy. He’s making it up.

[elvis-lives]

Wow. I stand corrected. I didn’t know that there was only slight damage to his vehicle when he drove into the closed gate at 4:40 in the morning with two minor girls strapped in the backseat, fled the scene on foot refusing to obey commands of law enforcement officer to stop, later returning to his vehicle and further refusing to stop when he was told to, instead, fleeing in the vehicle with the girls still in the vehicle.

I’m sure that the deputy was only thinking warm fuzzy thoughts when a grown man tried to foricbly enter a school ground hours before dawn with two young girls in the back seat and then refused to answer a deputy sheriff’s questions.

here’s a hint. When a cop pulls you over, politely answer his questions. If he asks to search your vehicle or belongigngs, politely decline and wait for the warrant.

[ArmyTeach]

Saw that. However, as the vehicle is on the truck being removed, two bent bars which are likely gate parts lie in front of the SUV.

[ArmyTeach]

Sorry, Elvis. I’m reiterating facts as I have read them in various news reports. You, on the other hand, are just reiterating the officer’s report, the details of which has changed at least twice.

[elvis-lives]

In your research, did you find out why this man did not simply answer questions that everyone who is pulled over is asked. Any explanation of why he is taking two young girls onto a closed school ground at 4:40 am? Any answers as where he went on the school grounds or why he tried to drive away?

[ArmyTeach]

Now that is a good question, and I don’t know. A lot of us have asked the same question. This behavior is completely out of character, according to everyone who knew him. Pure speculation, but a minor stroke or seizure? If so, it will show up in the autopsy. If not, then well, I just couldn’t know. He was a military man, and his superiors attest that he always followed orders.
As for the early hours, people who knew him said that this wasn’t unusual, although in all honesty I can see how the deputy would be concerned. The SGT typically was due at work at 6 am (0600) and frequently worked a 12 to 16 hour day, so you can guess that his time with his growing girls was limited. His wife usually accompanied them, but she is expecting a baby within the month. His friends and family said that he and the girls walked the track and read and discussed the Bible. He was a dedicated church man. And these seem to be all level headed solid citizens.
I also read that the gate was usually opened, so in all probability he didn’t see it until too late. Mild concussion? Maybe he got out to assess the damage-my speculation. It’s what I would do.
That’s what I’ve read.
Thanks

[ArmyTeach]

Can you take more? Being so concerned, I should think the deputy might have fired a warning shot or a disabling shot and saved a life and saved the girls from a trauma they will live with for their entire lives.

[dragnet2]

All that matters very little. Everyday unarmed people ignore police requests and demands...This probably happens 300x per day in the U.S.

The fact is, this does not give a cop the legal authority to shoot to death, *unarmed* people who ignored a cops demand or command. End of story.

[brityank]

Thanks for all the added info and conjecture, I suspect the outcome will please no one.
Let me try to put what I've gleaned into my opinion of the activities:

1. Sgt. Loggins - as he normally does around 04:30 daily - drives into the area not expecting to hit an obstruction.
2. He hits something - there is blue transfer on the white plastic bumper of his Yukon's right side and damage to the headlight on the left side - and pulls down and stops to ascertain the damage. He may have gone to the field to find whatever he hit as it doesn't show on any photos released so far.
3. The OCSD Deputy - alerted/woken by the clash - drives up when Loggins is out of the vehicle with no lights or siren to alert Loggins, to 'catch him in the deed' - and fails to notice the kids in the rear.
4. The Deputy walks out yelling, but fails to fully identify himself.
5. Bear in mind it's dark, no or few lights, and tinted windows.
6. Loggins, concerned for his kids and a possible robbery or worse from unknown assailant(s) yells back and attempts to get away from this assailant to protect his kids.
7. The Deputy - also uncertain of what he's stumbled onto - is now on full "respect my authority" mode, and shoots at Loggins either as he's getting in or seated in the Yukon. (I had seen a report early on that Loggins was shot in the back.) Loggins is hit, and the window is blown out of the driver's door. (Where did the shards go, inside or on the ground?)
8. Screaming kids alert the Deputy that they are in the Yukon.

I don't believe either Loggins or his daughters in the Yukon knew that it was a Deputy until after the shooting. The Deputy broadcast that the call for "HIT AND RUN AND CHILD ENDANGERMENT" three minutes after his initial report of the stop; less than two minutes later he's calling for Medical Support. So I question as to whether the Deputy fired before or after 04:44.

Had the Deputy known the kids were in the Yukon prior to him shooting or putting out the call at 04:44 don't you think his first response would be to move them to the relative safety of his cruiser? That he didn't says either he didn't know or didn't care.

Still too many inconsistencies.

[LibertyLA]

My issue is the way cops are trained now. The concept of being a “Peace Officer” has just gone out the window (i.e. that the cop’s job is to “keep the peace”).

Now I think they are being trained as some sort of quasi-militarized enforcement squad. The kind of police you have in hard left regimes and/or dictatorships. I think cops are now taught to “over-react” - to do “takedowns” no matter what the situation. This is extremely creepy behavior. This ‘us vs them’ mentality cops seem to have nowadays is also a bit twisted. That’s the attitude in a dictatorship - not in the United States!

I went looking through news about it - here’s what they say about the Marine:

“A Marine shot to death by an Orange County sheriff’s deputy in a high school parking lot was deeply religious and regularly took early morning prayer walks with his daughters, a supervisor said.

Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr. was a devout Christian who walked at the San Clemente High School track with his family early in the morning, Maj. Christopher Cox told the Los Angeles Times”

“Loggins’ wife usually walked with the family but had stopped going because she is pregnant, Cox said.

“He was a mentor, somewhat of a father figure, to a number of the Marines,” Cox told the newspaper. “He was very soft-spoken, very nonconfrontational — very, very respectful. He was just the epitome of respect.”

“Loggins received multiple medals and commendations from the military.”

[ArmyTeach]

Thank you, absolutely true.

[ArmyTeach]

Thanks!

[trisham]

I haven’t read very many of the posts on this thread, but from the story alone this appears to be a tragic overreaction by the deputy. I’ve never had a bad experience with law enforcement, but it does seem that there are some badly trained, emotionally unsuitable and intellectually unequipped law enforcement types out there.

[AnTiw1]

" I've never had a bad experience with law enforcement... "

My jaw dropped.

[brityank]

Look at #169 for my take so far. Thanks.

[brityank]

Now I think they are being trained as some sort of quasi-militarized enforcement squad. The kind of police you have in hard left regimes and/or dictatorships. I think cops are now taught to “over-react” - to do “takedowns” no matter what the situation. This is extremely creepy behavior. This ‘us vs them’ mentality cops seem to have nowadays is also a bit twisted. That’s the attitude in a dictatorship - not in the United States!

Sadly I believe you are right.
I had a talk many moons back with a cop who had been asked to join a SWAT Team in a large town, and both of us had the same opinion back then -- SWAT should only be under State control, not the individual local forces. Make the Governor and Legislature fully responsible for their actions in our neighborhoods, and keep the locals as Peace Officers. (He turned it down.) I'm not a cop, but I've known quite a few from years past and none I knew of were bad apples.

[ArmyTeach]

This is a civilian law enforcement issue, but my gut feeling is that NCIS is gearing up its own investigation. JAG will be all over it.

[ArmyTeach]

I am truly concerned about the daughters, whether they had a lawyer or child advocate available to them, and whether an attempt was made to influence their testimony.

[brityank]

By now I would hope the family has a lawyer, and that he’s a real bulldog! You have to know those kids were scared witless - a supposed ‘good guy’ cop just killed their Dad, and he wants them to obey him? I’d be damned surprised if there isn’t influence cast on them.

[LibertyLA]

I have friends who are cops - can’t see them doing what this deputy did.

I think you may have a “Farva” here who woke up, was out of control and pulled the trigger. Maybe trying to ‘control’ the situation when he should have just followed the car until it could be pulled over. Overreactive policing is the same thing that happened in Waco when BATF pushed to attack as opposed to just pulling Koresh in when he was in town.

Again, this is why I think the concept of the “peace officer” is the best policing model. It usually avoids escalations and mistakes and with it the bad PR that all good cops then get painted with. But the edicts from on high are pushing the ‘new’ militarized model on all the departments - ultimately this is not a good idea. And it certainly isn’t American.