Posted on 01/21/2012 1:48:45 PM PST by pinochet
I missed this; too.
She could AVOID reasoning with the best of them!
Jim Robinson is my HERO!
“Mitt Romney created Obamacare by way of Romneycare.”
I am not so sure about that you forget about “HillaryCare”
It flopped but I think that was the starting point.
Dixie chick I so agree with you.
Just one thing I don’t understand is how anyone who calls themselves “conservative” and “Mormon” could support Mitt.
I was here when Prop 8 in California happened as were both of you. I remember the Mormon church butting heads and taking heat on that issue.
In fact I want all three of you to know this, you too Saundra if you are still lurking. Just after Prop 8 I saw two Mormon Missionaries get out of their truck at the end of my road as I was pulling out. What did I do? I scared the crap out of them when I pulled in beside them like John Wayne only to roll down my window and thank them for their support! These Mormon missionaries told me that during Prop 8 they had been in Ohio and had been harassed by homosexuals in the area. The only reason they were not physically attacked is because one person with them was 16 years old and that would have made it a felony.
Now Saundra I can understand you wanting a “first Mormon president” but for the love of God can it be a true Mormon? I am not a Mormon, don’t know much about the faith but just from coming to Free Republic for all these years I can see that Mitt Romney is not a true Mormon! A true Mormon is conservative, prolife, with family values and even I know this. Having a “first Mormon president” is a lot like having a “first black president” and look how well that is working out for us!.
Romney is a ‘true Mormon’ first of all - he hold the coveted ‘temple recommend’. Secondly Mormons are not as conservative or pro-life as many think. They have taken liberal stances on gay rights, abortion and illegal aliens. I can source this for you if you wish.
Finally, in my area of CA (high gay area) the Mormons were NOT involved in the Prop 8 fight. I was on the front lines and the LDS were nowhere to be found.
One last thing, there is a problem with what the missionaries told you - they don’t travel together out of the area so therefore there is NO way they could have been in OH and CA together. They were lying to you to gain sympathy. Something Mormons do more often than people realize.
These are JUST FOR STARTERS....
Abortion...according to their ‘handbook of instructions’ abortion is ok in several cases, the usual health of the mother, rape or incest, but also in cases of emotional health of mother (too much stress). Basically it states it is ok as long as approached with prayer. Many people think the LDS have a lot of kids because they are pro-life, rather they do so out of duty to bring God and Heavenly Mother’s ‘spirit children’ to earth to ‘progress’ and earn their ‘exaltation’ (godhood). There is no statement from the LDS church that life begins at conception and many LDS believe that an aborted child will be given another chance to get a body.
It is also allowed if “The fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.”
We have no revelation on abortion”
Didn’t you assume Mormons were pro-life? That’s certainly the image their church attempts to broadcast, and most Mormons, in fact, mistakenly believe their church opposes abortion and regards it as an objective evil. But not so.
Indeed, the Mormon church accepts abortion for a number of reasons. The Church Handbook of Instructions, approved in September, 1998, states that abortion may be performed in the following circumstances: pregnancy resulting from rape or incest; a competent physician says the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy; or a competent physician says that the “fetus” has severe defects that will not allow the “baby” to survive beyond birth. In any case, the persons responsible must first consult with their church leader and receive God’s approval in prayer (156).
This same Handbook, the official policies of the Mormon church to be followed by all local church leaders throughout the world, also claims: “It is a fact that a child has life before birth. However, there is no direct revelation on when the spirit enters the body” (156). Previous teachings by former Mormon prophets referred to the unborn child as “a child,” “a baby,” a “human being,” and decried abortion as “killing,” “a grievous sin,” “a damnable practice.” Spencer W. Kimball, the prophet who died in 1985, taught, “We have repeatedly affirmed the position of the church in unalterably opposing all abortions” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 189).
It appears that this “unalterable” position, constantly “affirmed,” is just another in a series of doctrinal and moral teachings that Mormons have reworded, reworked, rescinded, or reneged—though never officially renounced. Such is the quality of the Mormon belief in “continuing revelation.” Don’t expect dogmatic or ethical consistency. Rather, look for expediency and conformity with “the times.”
A further statement in the Handbook says: “The church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion (156).” While the Mormon prophet claims to speak the mind and will of God, he can neither figure out when the unborn child becomes human or if it is God’s desire that we protect the unborn unconditionally.
Your Mormon friend will offer the excuse that his church leaves many decisions to the free agency (free will) of its people, and that abortion is one such concern. You might point out the irony in the fact that the Mormon church has no hesitation or uncertainty in making the following declarations:
1. “The church opposes gambling in any form” (including lotteries). Members are also urged to oppose legislation and government sponsorship of any form of gambling (Handbook, 150).
2. The church also opposes [correctly, of course] pornography in any form (158).
3. Church members are to reject all efforts to legally authorize or support same-sex unions (158).
There is no need for a member to pray for divine guidance or seek church approval for such activities, for there will be no divine or ecclesiastical finessing of morality to permit even an occasional bingo game. A prayerful game of poker, unrepented, will bar the member from the temple and ultimate salvation; a prayerful, by-the-book abortion, unrepented [abortion], won’t.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mormon-stumpers
See also http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_abor.htm
Again just for starters...
There are also cases of the LDS aiding and abetting illegal aliens which I can also provide documentation for.
This site is run by an active LDS man...
http://www.renewamerica.com/article/110421
Officially, the LDS Church’s stated position on illegal immigration is that it has no position on illegal immigration.
In 2004, the LDS Church officially took “no position” on a bill that would have ended the issuance of Utah driver’s licenses to illegal aliens.34
A 2006 press release emphasized that the Church had taken no position on illegal immigration. It read: “The Church, in fact, has made no comment so far on the immigration debate, recognizing that this complex question is now before Congress and is already being thoroughly aired in the public square.”35
On February 14, 2008, during an interfaith dialogue on illegal immigration, Elder Marlin K. Jensen of the Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said the “LDS church has taken no position on any particular measure on the federal or state level.”36
On April 29, 2009, Michael Prudy, a spokesman for the LDS Church, once again told reporters that “The church does not have an official position on immigration policy … .”37
In 2010, in an article on the doctrinal divide within the LDS Church over immigration, Salt Lake Tribune reporter Jeremiah Stettler wrote: “Utah’s dominant religion hasn’t taken a definitive position on the question. Instead, church leaders have called for ‘compassion’ and encouraged ‘careful reflection and civil discourse’ when debating immigration reform. LDS Church leaders would not elaborate for this story.”38
In 2011, the Church continued to assert that it had no position on illegal immigration legislation while at the same time supporting the development and passage of an omnibus immigration bill that included a Utah-specific guest worker/amnesty provision for illegal aliens living and working in the state. The Church found it difficult to maintain its assertions of “no position” when the Tea Party and 9/12 groups that were present for the first time on Capitol Hill became aware of its activities.
http://www.cis.org/mormon-church-and-illegal-immigration
Gay rights....Most people assume mormons are not for gay rights because of Prop 8, however there has been a huge (for them) change in the last few years.
They have given an openly gay man a position of leadership (Stake secretary equiv to assistant to a Catholic Bishop), have advocated for gay rights in SLC and changed their offical policy on Homosexual thoughts being a sin in their handbook of instructions. These are rapid and new developments but expect to see more changes soon. Also, you are no longer automatically excommunicated for being gay (which was not the case 15 years ago).
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52486958-78/mayne-gay-lds-ward.html.csp
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/joannabrooks/5013/openly_gay_mormon_appointed_to_lds_church_leadership_position/
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/joannabrooks/3720/homosexual_thoughts_and_feelings_not_a_sin%2C_says_new_lds_handbook/
http://loydo38.blogspot.com/2010/11/homosexuality-in-2010-church-handbook.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2384333/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2384160/posts
People assume Mormons are pro-life because they have a lot of kids and generally oppose birth control for that reason.
However, rather than having kids because they believe life begins at conception and being genuinely pro-life, it is because their theology teaches that their job is to provide bodies for God’s spirit children who are waiting to come down and ‘work out their Salvation’. These spirit children cannot progress to godhood if they don’t have bodies and the best of them should be born to Mormon families where they grow up in ‘the Church’ and know the right doctrines rather than risk them not converting.
Officially the LDS have no statement about when the spirit enters the body, but most of my LDS friends believe it is at birth or shortly before, so abortion isn’t THAT big of a deal, because the spirit child will get another chance to get a body.
A couple of things Romney is a temple mormon, which means he has to abide a set of rules and regulations to receive a TR, only about 15% of mormons make it this level. (Harry Reid is also a temple mormon.)
The story the lds kids told you is a fabrication.
mormons are not as conservative as the image they present.
For the record I assume a candidate is prolife when they
A. Say they are pro life
and
B. have a history of voting for pro life causes
or
if they are not in voting power (ie the county dog catcher)
C. lend their name to the Pro life movement.
Is that too much to ask?
Both of you this thing about being a “temple Mormon” is so lost on me that I am not gonna get it.
If it is that high of status however I can only guess that he and Prince Harry paid someone off to get it. Just like I suspect Princess Nancy is paying someone off to not be excommunicated in San Fran.
Only thing I can tell you is that the majority of Mormons I know in my area are conservative people who are against the agendas of the left. At least the Mormons I know are like this, I can’t speak for the rest of the country.
If they in anyway in support Mitt Romney just because he is a Mormon then I will tell them what I told Saundra and that is don’t vote for him just to have a “first Mormon President” he does not support your beliefs.
Now do you get it?
Mittouts!
Elsie please post to M the TR requirements, I feel it is important for her to know exactly what a TR entails along with the other TR information you have. I am pretty sure you have that at your finger tips.
Based on your questions/comments, then Romney is out.
Good questions/comments by the way.
...and never provide a source link!
You can’t ‘pay someone off’ to get a temple recommend. You have to be a good, faithful believing Mormon. That is the only way.
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Temple_Recommend
Mitt claims HE is ‘pro-life’ do you believe him?
Mormons have a habit of redefining words to make themselves and the LDS church look good. Been there, done that.
Define ‘pro-life’ for me please.
I lied, that worked too. I figured since they were all liars, one more wouldn't make a hell of a lot of difference.
So in your opinion are Mitt and Harry Reid really ‘temple worthy’ members or not?
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