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To: cva66snipe
I post this on some of these threads when I see them. This was my own analysis of the "energy savings", using government supplied data.

I don't have an issue with the lights themselves. If people want to use them, that is their business if they want to pay the money and a manufacturer thinks they can make money by producing them. What I take issue with is government bureaucrats taking my money via confiscatory taxes, TELLING me how to spend the money they leave me, then passing legislation to DRIVE up the cost of energy so we are FORCED to spend more money to drive our cars, heat our homes and turn on our lights, whether they be incandescent or CFL. These bastards think they are doing us a big favor because they think they know best, and are trying to twist our arms to accept their utopian crap. They think if energy costs go up high enough, their plans to harness unicorn flatulence or whatever will become economically viable.

Well I don't care to take part in their damned experiments. If my town wants to purchase LED based traffic and street lights because it saves the town money and is a guaranteed return on investment, then power to them. If people want these CFL lights in the marketplace as an alternative to make their homes more energy efficient, then I think is is fine and would never say boo to anyone so inclined. Actually, my issue is not even residential lighting. Making citizens purchase stuff we don't want and don't need is NOT going to solve any kind of energy shortage. It is the equivalent of selling carbon credits or putting a magnetic sticker on the back of a car. It is Jimmy Carter wearing sweaters and telling us to turn our thermostats down.

So to make my point that forcing all of us to use these things, have to pay MORE money to buy them (even though most of us have found they don't last nearly as long as the government says they do) Here an the original unaltered graph from Livermore Labs/DOE which I think is a very, very good graphical representation (reflecting the situation in 2009):

As shown below, I cut out a part of that graph and marked it up. Of the four major sectors, residential is the second smallest using just 4.65% of generated electrical power as shown by the graph. Government statistics say lighting consumes 12% of 4.65% of electricity flowing into a house. In the inset (enlarged) part shows the 4.65% pipeline with the red stripe on it showing the lighting share, and the green stripe showing what it would be if we assume 10% efficiency compared to CFL for incandescent bulbs. (The orange pipe leading into the box signifies the RESIDENTAL SECTOR of the energy grid and is representative of energy generated from all sources)

I didn't get this image from some anti-enviroweenie website. I made it myself after analyzing the data on the graph and government data such as estimates of how much lighting uses. And it illustrates the point I make, backed up with the government's own data, that forcing us to do this via statist legislation is basically ANOTHER camel nose in the figurative tent...BECAUSE THEY CAN.

If the market really wanted these lightbulbs, they would have made it on their own without government legislation. But, in my opinion, buying into this without a fight just exacerbates this statist mess we are in covering everything from legislation against transfats and salt in the diet to the amount of water we can flush down our toilet. Liberals think this is great because it is their pet thing that they have bought hook, line and sinker, running around screaming that we are running out of energy. Surrendering to this just invites the government to intrude into EVERY facet of our life.

I don't disparage people for choosing CFL's as a stand to take. I believe I have the data (shown graphically here) to indicate that using CFL's in houses isn't going to save us from anything. It is just a piece of do-gooder legislation that only does just that...makes guilty people feel good. I readily admit that one can make an argument for commercial/industrial building codes and so on, and I might buy into it and agree, the same as I agree with towns purchasing led-based traffic lights. However, building codes are so top heavy with bureaucracy now that I would fight against mandating these in commercial use on those grounds alone.

By my home is my home. And we have gone far too long allowing the government to dictate what we can and cannot do on our own quarter acre of land, small as it is. I am sick to death of it.

167 posted on 01/16/2012 7:17:24 PM PST by rlmorel ("A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill)
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To: rlmorel

and if you go one step further and actually had data by light fixture, I believe 99% of the savings represented here involves <5 light fixtures in the house.

Yes, if you changed only 5 light fixtures, you would realize 99% of the savings.

Not only that, these are the ones that you don’t tend to turn off, so you would also eliminate the negatives of using CFLs.

If only you weren’t mandated by the government to do it.


169 posted on 01/16/2012 7:32:11 PM PST by dila813
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To: rlmorel
By my home is my home. And we have gone far too long allowing the government to dictate what we can and cannot do on our own quarter acre of land, small as it is. I am sick to death of it.

Yea so am I. It's over reach at the extreme to dictate a persons lighting. I have a pretty good residential and commercial electrical back ground and understand the need for certain things like the National Electrical Code etc. It is 100% to do with your safety and the safety of others. The light bulb law is 100% simply because we are the government and we say so.

I do know this much. Besides cost savings and longevity fluorescent tubes are used in commercial buildings the other reason is vibrations. Multi story buildings can burn out a standard incandescent in a matter of a few hours. But you can buy commercial grade incadesents as well that will take such abuse. In a multi-story building due to associated machinery like A/C, foot traffic, etc they vibrate considerably.

Just for my own preference wheen I do use fluorescent lighting I always go with either 24 or 48 inch ubes on a transformer ballast. The energy savings is still there and the reliable coil ballast take abuse a lot better. I've changed out ballast over 40 years old plenty of times. The downside I see too CFL besides reduced lighting is the electronic ballast aspect. For the same reason when I buy a tube fixture I made certain it is not using an electronic ballast.

Too each his own :>}

170 posted on 01/16/2012 8:20:45 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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