Dem Drives Anti-Mormon Card

National Review ^ | 1/11/2012 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

[reaganaut]

I really don’t get into Mormon theology much if ever because I try to keep my Mormon temple covenant to avoid loud laughter (especially when I’m at work) and anytime I think about Mormon teachings I just feel like laughing now.

- - - - -
ROFLMAO! (and yes that was intentional regarding loud laughter). ;)

[Scoutmaster]

Lamanite DNA's going to change, apparently:

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today as against that of only fifteen years ago. Truly the scales of darkness are falling from their eyes, and they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people....The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation."

"At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl . . . was several shades lighter than her parents[.] There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated."

"The day of the Lamanites has come . . . today the dark clouds are dissipating."

Twelfth president/prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Improvement Era magazine, December 1960. pages 922-23.

[reaganaut]

Indeed, Happy FR Birthday, Nana!

[reaganaut]

Thank YOU! I was looking for that exact quote the other day and couldn’t find it.

You, scout, are a treasure.

[Utah Binger]

Days are upside down.

[bonfire]

Absolute insanity. Ravings of a madman.

No wonder our Mormon friends are left speechless.

[Elsie]

And why there are articles by LDS 'non-faithful' historians on difficulties they face, where one footnote linking other journal articles on the difficulties caused by Packer and 'faith-promoting' history look like this:

"For other (sometimes academic, sometimes personal) statements by historians of Mormon background concerning the writing of Mormon history, see notes 4 and 5 above, and also Leonard J. Arrington, "Preface," Great Basin Kingdom: An Economic History of the Latter-day Saints, 1830-1900 (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1958), esp. viii-ix;

 

Marvin S. Hill, "The Historiography of Mormonism," Church History 28 (Dec. 1959): 418-26;

Klaus J.Hansen, "Reflections on the Writing of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Spring 1966): 158-60;

Richard L. Bushman, "Taking Mormonism Seriously," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Summer 1966): 81-84;

Bushman, "The Future of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Autumn 1966): 23-26;

Arrington, "The Search for Truth and Meaning in Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 3 (Summer 1968): 56-66;

Bushman, "Faithful History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 4 (Winter 1969): 11-25;

Fawn M. Brodie, Can We Manipulate the Past? (Salt Lake City: Center for the Study of the American West, University of Utah, 1970);

Richard D. Poll, "God and Man in History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Spring 1972): 101-09;

Hill, "Brodie Revisited: A Reappraisal," Dialogue: A [p.100]Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Winter 1972): 85; 

Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History," Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 78-96;

William Mulder, "Fatherly Advice," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Winter 1974): 77-80;

Mulder, "History Is Then and Now: A Conversation with Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian," Ensign 5 (July 1975): 8-13;

Mulder, "The Mormon Angle of Historical Vision: Some Maverick Reflections," and Marvin S. Hill, "The 'Prophet Puzzle' Assembled: Or, How to Treat Our Historical Diplopia toward Joseph Smith,: Journal of Mormon History 3 (1976): 13-22, 101-05;

Poll, "Nauvoo and the New Mormon History: A Bibliographical Survey," Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978): 105-123;

James B. Allen, "Line Upon Line," Ensign 9 (July 1979): 32-39;

Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: Some Problems and Prospects," Encyclia: Journal of the Utah Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters 56 (1979): 114-26;

Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: A Dialogue with Jan Shipps, Richard Bushman, and Leonard Arrington," Century 2 [BYU] 4 (Spring-Summer 1980): 27-39;

Richard Sherlock, "The Gospel beyond Time: Thoughts on the Relation of Faith and Historical Knowledge," Sunstone 5, (July-Aug. 1980): 20-23;

James L. Clayton, "History and Theology: The Mormon Connections: A Response," Sunstone 5 (Nov.-Dec. 1980): 51-53;

Roger Elvin Borg, "Theological Marionettes': Historicism in Mormon History," Thetean: A Student Journal of History (Provo, UT: Beta Iota Chapter of Phi Alpha Theta, Brigham Young University, 1981): 5-20;

 

Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments, and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;

Davis Bitton, "Mormon Biography," Biography: An Interdisciplinary Quarterly 4 (Winter 1981): 1-16;

Clayton, "Does History Undermine Faith?" Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 33-40;

Ronald K. Esplin, "How Then Should We Write History? Another View," Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 41-45;

Jay Fox, "Clio and Calliope: Writing Imaginative Histories of the Pacific," Proceedings of the Mormon Pacific Historical Society, Third Annual Conference, April 10, 1982, 12-19;

Ronald W. Walker, "The Nature and Craft of Mormon Biography," Brigham Young University Studies 22 (Spring 1982); 179-92;

Bitton, "Like the Tigers of Old Time," Sunstone 7 (Sept.-Oct. 1982): 44-48; Melvin T. Smith, "Faithful History: Hazards and Limitations," Journal of Mormon History 9 (1982): 61-69;

Arrington, "Personal Reflections on Mormon History," Sunstone 8 (July - Aug. 1983): 41-45;

Smith, Faithful History/Secular Faith," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Winter 1983): 65-71;

Thomas G. Alexander, "Toward the New Mormon History: An Examination of the Literature on the Latter-day Saints in the Far West," in Michael P. Malone, ed., Historians and the American West (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1983), 344-68; Smith, "Faithful History/Secular Religion," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 51-58;

Hill, "Richard L. Bushman: Scholar and Apologist," Journal of Mormon History 11 [p.101](1984): 125-33;

Lavina Fielding Anderson, "The Assimilation of Mormon History: Modern Mormon Historical Novels," Mormon Letters Annual, 1983 (Salt Lake City: Association for Mormon Letters, 1984), 1-9;

 

Arrington, "Why I Am a Believer," and Walker, "A Way Station," Sunstone 10 (Apr. 1985): 36-38, 58-59;

Grant Underwood, "Re-visioning Mormon History," Pacific Historical Review 55 (Aug. 1986): 403-26;

Alexander, "No Way to Build Bridges," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Spring 1989): 5;

Hill, "The New Mormon History Reassessed in Light of Recent Books on Joseph Smith and Mormon Origins," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 21 (Autumn 1988): 115-27;

Poll, History and Faith: Reflections of a Mormon Historian (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989);

 

Hansen, "Arrington's Historians," Sunstone 13 (Aug. 1989: 41-43; "Coming to Terms with Mormon History: An Interview with Leonard Arrington," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Winter 1989): 39-54;

 

Hill, "Afterword," Brigham Young University Studies 30 (Fall1990): 117-24;

David B. Honey and Daniel C. Peterson, "Advocacy and Inquiry in Mormon Historiography," Brigham Young University Studies 31 (Spring 1991): 139-79;

Gary James Bergera, "The New Mormon Anti-Intellectualism," Sunstone 15 (June 1991): 53-55;

D. Michael Quinn, "Editor's Introduction," The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Mormon Past (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1991);

Malcolm R. Thorp, "Some Reflections on New Mormon History and the Possibilities of a 'New' Traditional History," Sunstone 15 (Nov. 1991): 39-46;

Douglas F. Tobler and S. George Ellsworth, "History: Significance to Latter-day Saints," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 3:595-98;

Richard P. Howard, Restoration Scriptures: A Study of Their Textual Development (Independence, MO: Herald House, 1969);

Richard P. Howard, "Latter Day Saint Scriptures and the Doctrine of Propositional Revelation," and Paul M. Edwards, "Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I Am?" in Courage: A Journal of History, Thought and Action 1 (June 1971): 209-25, 241-46;

Richard P. Howard, "The Effect of Time and Changing Conditions on Our Knowledge of History," Saints' Herald 120 (June 1973): 54;

Paul M. Edwards, "The Irony of Mormon History," Utah Historical Quarterly 41 (Autumn 1973): 393-409;

Robert B. Flanders, "Some Reflections on the New Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Spring 1974): 34-41;

Richard P. Howard, "The Historical Method as the Key to Understanding Our Heritage," Saints' Herald 121 (Nov. 1974): 53;

Paul M. Edwards, "The Secular Smiths," Journal of Mormon History 4 (1977): 3-17;

F. Henry Edwards, "Engagement with Church History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 1 (1981): 30-33;

Richard P. Howard, "Adjusting Theological Perspectives to Historical Reality," Saints' Herald 129 (Sept. 1982): 28;

C. Robert Mesle, "History, Faith, and Myth," Sunstone 7 (Nov.-Dec. 1982): 10-13;

Richard P. Howard, "Themes in Latter Day Saint History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2 (1982): 23-29;

Richard P. Howard, "The Changing RLDS Response to Mormon Polygamy: A Preliminary Analysis," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 14-28;

Richard P. Howard, "The Problem of History and Revelation," Saints' Herald 131 (Oct. 1984): 24;

Paul M. Edwards, "Our Own Story," Sunstone 10 (Jan.-Feb. 1985): 40-41;

Alma R. Blair, "RLDS Views of Polygamy: Some Historiographical Notes," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 5 (1985): 16-28;

Paul M. Edwards, "The New Mormon History," Saints' Herald 133 (Nov. 1986): 12-14, 20;

W. Grant McMurray, "'As Historians and Not as Partisans': The Writing of Official History in the RLDS Church," and Roger D. Launius, "A New Historiographical Frontier: The Reorganization in the Twentieth Century," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 6 (1986): 43-52, 53-63;

 

Don H. Compier, "History and the Problem of Evil: Reflections on the Philosophical and Theological Implications of the 'New Mormon History,'" and Flanders, "Review," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 8 (1988): 45-53, 91-93;

Roger D. Launius, "Whither Reorganization Historiography?"; Paul M. Edwards, "A Time and a Season: History as History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 10 (1990): 24-50, 85-90; and Paul M. Edwards, "A Community of Heart," Journal of Mormon History 17 (1991): 28-34;

 

Leonard J. Arrington, "Historian as Entrepreneur: A Personal Essay," Brigham Young University Studies 17 (Winter 1977): 193-209;

Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;

Davis Bitton, "Ten Years in Camelot: A Personal Memoir," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Autumn 1983): 9-35;

Howard C. [p.97]Searle, "Historians, Church," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:591."

So it may not be doctrine, but it makes a big difference if you're writing or researching LDS history, this 'faith-promoting' deal.

We even have faithful reviews of non-faithful books about writing faithful history published by faithful history journals: Gary F. Novak, "Review of Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History by George D. Smith," FARMS Review of Books 5/1 (1993).

[Elsie]

Eh ???

You is ISMless!

Does this mean now that like Elsie I too can get a raise for my great perfomance as an “paid anti-Mormon operative” ???

[Elsie]

When I woke up on the 3rd of August 1998 my mind had finally accepted the truth.

 FREE KITTENS

A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.

Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.

"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.

"Kittens," little Suzy said.

"How old are they?" asked Monson.

Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."

"And what kind of kittens are they?"

"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.

Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.

 

 

So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine  and KSL.

Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.

"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."

"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."

Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."

Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"

 FREE KITTENS

[Elsie]

...Ezra Taft Benson’s health...

It is GOOD for the Living Prophet® to enjoy good health.

If it becomes SO poor that the Living Prophet® ain't: no one will then take HIM seriously any more...

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In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

[Elsie]

Days are upside down.

Seasons were for Nana; afore we had the blessing of her presence in our country.

[stuartcr]

Yes silly you.

[stuartcr]

Yes silly you.

[Utah Binger]

Is this her?

[Degaston]

Ooops I wrote another incomplete sentence: I OFTEN try to keep my Mormon temple covenant to avoid loud laughter (especially when I’m at work) .....

Sometimes I fail in avoiding loud laughter, especially when I listen to songs from the South Park guys’ musical on the Book of Mormon. Oh well nobody is perfect. Take for example President Monson and his what the legal system would call “obstruction of justice” in letting a child molester roam free in order to protect the reputation of the Lord’s true church. Could it be possible for God to make up the difference in PR if the Mormon church is God’s true church and some Bishop is exposed as a child molester & gets his name in the papers after being excommunicated & convicted? Maybe the Lord could’ve brought a huge broadcast device from Kolob to hover over the metro areas where this story would’ve broke and said “yes my children a Bishop in my true church molested children and this is terribly wrong. But do not let this cause you to think badly of my true church and Brethren in Salt Lake”? As a child I learned in Sunday School that the Lord created worlds without number so I’m guessing that if the Lord ever had any PR problems that bringing in a broadcast system from Kolob or anything else needed to be done could be done to help the Lord’s PR department overcome whatever is ailing the Lord’s true church’s reputation.

[Elsie]

Nope. She’d have December roses!

[Elsie]

I’m going to have to search MORMONism’s ancestory site to see if you and MormonDude are related...

[Utah Binger]

Some great trout streams in NZ I hear. Someday......

[TheOldLady]

Boop Their Tiny Tamarin Tootsies!

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[Scoutmaster]

I read LDS history from the official LDS History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the history that Joseph Smith began to write but was completed after his death by other members of the LDS church hierarchy in 1856. Parts were published in Times and Seasons and other LDS magazines, and in its entirety with annotations and edits as part of a seven-volume series beginning in 1902.

I read 'faithful history,' written by LDS authors and presented as scholarly writings with annotations and footnotes to source documents and writings.

I read LDS history that does not meet the 'faithful history' standard, written by current LDS, former LDS, other religious scholars, and scholars who have been excommunicated for writing history that wasn't faithful but who still consider themselves believing Saints (D. Michael Quinn, Ph.D., for example).

In addition to reading LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer's admonition to LDS historians, The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect, anyone interested in the difference between faithful history and history should read D. Michael Quinn's heavily footnoted account of the long story of his loss of Temple Recommend and eventual excommunication for, among other things, writing about post-1890 Manifesto marriages and magic and the Mormon world view. It's a fascinating read and part of a group of collected works (primarily by LDS historians) about the difficulties of being a LDS historian given the admonition to write faithful history:

On Being a Mormon Historian (and Its Aftermath).

Dr. Quinn still considers himself a believing Saint. He's considered perhaps the most knowledgable authority, living or dead, on Mormon history. NOTE: Quinn is gay. He came out of the closet long after being excommunicated. You'll hear people say he was excommunicated for that. There was more than a two-decade span between one and the other. He's just one of many LDS scholars excommunicated or disenfellowshipped (or who had a TR pulled) for writing history found to be unfaithful.

I support the right of LDS FR members to believe in their faith. This isn't about theology, it's about history. When facts about LDS history are covered up, they are hidden from members of the LDS church as well as non-LDS.