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To: DiogenesLamp
The 14th Amendment DOES say who will be native citizens. The Court said it DOES NOT SAY who are "natural born citizens." This is a tacit admission that simply being a "native citizen" is not the same thing as being a "natural born citizen." If it were, the court would have said:
"The Constitution DOES say who shall be "natural born citizens. It says so right in the 14th amendment! " Ergo, proof positive that being a "native Citizen" is not the sole criteria for being a "natural citizen."


But Happersett says "These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners." So aren't they equating native born and natural born?
92 posted on 01/11/2012 8:46:14 AM PST by DTxAg
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To: DTxAg
But Happersett says "These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners." So aren't they equating native born and natural born?

For most of this nation's existence, the term "native" was used interchangeably with "natural born". The Quote in Minor says this very thing. In the 19th Century, it was uncommon to find anyone who was "native born" but was not "natural born" because there were very few foreign parent transients when everyone arrived by sailing ship.

In the example you quote above, I am referring to the modern usage of the term "native" as opposed to the 19th century usage of it. Modern Usage is that a "native" is anyone born here, with no consideration of whether the parents were part of the community or not.

My point was that the 14th amendment describes exactly this modern usage of the word "native." It grants citizenship to anyone born here. The Central point of many Obama Legitimacy trolls is that this means the same thing as Article II "natural born citizen", and that the ruling in Wong Kim Ark does as well.

My drawing attention to the Minor Quote is to point out that the Supreme court SPECIFICALLY said the Constitution Does not SAY who shall be "natural born citizens." The Court Specifically said the 14th Amendment (which means just being born here.) Does not refer to "natural born citizens." This completely shoots down the argument that just being "born here" or being a "native" in modern usage, is the same thing as being a "natural born citizen."

That quote shows that the court said it is NOT the same thing.

100 posted on 01/11/2012 9:21:52 AM PST by DiogenesLamp
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To: DTxAg
But Happersett says "These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners." So aren't they equating native born and natural born?

That is exactly right. Justice Waite in MvH, following the language of Vattel from the Law of Nations," equates natives and natural-born citizens ... and in BOTH circumstances, this refers ONLY to persons who are born inthe country to citizen parents. Vattel says the place of birth is not as important as the citizenship of the father.

After the Wong Kim Ark decision, the term "native-born" has been genercized to refer to persons who are domestically born within a country's jurisdiction, but the decision itself made a clear distinction that preserves the meaning of the term natural-born citizen as meaning those persons born in the country to citizen parents. And clearly the court in WKA says the 14th amendment does NOT define natural-born citizenship. Native-born does NOT appear in the Constitution and is NOT the requirement for presidential eligibility. That term is only natural-born citizen. That definition has not changed: All persons born in the country to parents who were its citizesn.

101 posted on 01/11/2012 9:29:52 AM PST by edge919
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To: DTxAg

Even in todays online dictionary there are multiple definitions of ‘native’ that may address your question.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/native

“1. being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being: one’s native land.
2. belonging to a person by birth or to a thing by nature; inherent: native ability; native grace.
3. belonging by birth to a people regarded as indigenous to a certain place, especially a preliterate people: Native guides accompanied the expedition through the rain forest.”

What seems to be the ‘default’ definition that leads to your question is item 1 above. It is simply ‘place of birth’.

But look at number 3 - “belonging by birth to a PEOPLE REGARDED AS INDIGENOUS...”. That definition is the one that is more synonymous to ‘natural born’ that #1.

So ‘native’ does not just mean ‘place’.


102 posted on 01/11/2012 9:36:23 AM PST by bluecat6 ( "A non-denial denial. They doubt our heritage, but they don't say the story is not accurate.")
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