I dunno about your conclusion then.
If our mistake was protecting oil assets in Iran, I think I disagree. If there was another way to do so, I have no idea.
I believe Iran was better, for it’s people, under the shah. I think it obvious that it was better for America and the world than the mullahs. Yes, there was oppression and certain constraints on freedom under the shah, but less than today? I don’t think so.
Contrary to your conclusion, I think it could be posited that the mistake was made in allowing Iran to collapse into what it is today rather than in helping make it what is was previous. And, I’m not certain that your point that the people of Iran were against their previous government and for the current one is valid.
Certainly the young revolutionary theocrats were against the shah’s Iran, but I think it entirely possible that the people as a whole would rather have that Iran than what they have now, back then and today.
thanks for your reply.
I believe Iran was better, for it’s people, under the shah.
Let me entreat you to really consider this statement for a moment. Doesn't it seem even a little bit proper to consider that it should have been up to the Iranian people to decide what they thought was better for them? They elected their leadership and we overthrew it. It really is that plain and simple. I think we were better off under other leaders than Obama, but would that make it okay for a foreign nation to remove him from office and put somebody else of their choosing in power? I hardly think so.
I think it obvious that it was better for America and the world than the mullahs. Yes, there was oppression and certain constraints on freedom under the shah, but less than today? I don’t think so.
At that time, without a doubt. However, history doesn't spring up from nothing, and putting him into power had consequences. And even if the Iranians themselves were better off under the Shah, which they may very well have been, they would hardly accept our machinations that put him there. And the Shah's rule almost certainly conditioned the rise of those mullahs. I will certainly grant that they were becoming more powerful under Mossedeq but they took great advantage of increasing their power under the Shah and turning us into a powerful symbol of evil.
Contrary to your conclusion, I think it could be posited that the mistake was made in allowing Iran to collapse into what it is today rather than in helping make it what is was previous.
I'm sorry, but that still doesn't really make engaging in such onerous behaviour valid. Even if we could be better off why should we do such things? It doesn't reflect our own values of self-determination. We used to believe in upholding the rights of people to democratic choice, but when Iran chose in a way we didn't like we chose for them. I really can't think that is right, and I believe history has shown that it didn't work out even for our own good in the end.
And, I’m not certain that your point that the people of Iran were against their previous government and for the current one is valid.
They certainly may not love it now, but at the time they seemed rather supportive. And there is no doubt that they elected Mossedeq. And, in the end, I just don't think it should be up to us to approve those for whom Iranians vote. If they shoot at us, then it is our problem, but not what they do at the ballot boxes. What we did in the 50s has led to disaster after disaster for relations in that part of the world, and we really should be less obstinate in our denial of error.
thanks for your reply.
And thank you.
I do hope you will understand me in this, as these things do often create massive flame wars on this forum. I am not defending Iranian barbarism or the development of nukes over there. I am merely trying to be honest in my appraisal of the history of our foreign policy in places like Iran. Accusations of "blaming America" makes a fun soundbite in a debate I am sure, but it actually just excuses terrible mistakes and covers over the importance of sound foreign policy with phony notions of American infallibility. If we would make our lives better we have to be more mature and be open to self-criticism.