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To: muawiyah

Care to discuss what the Spanish actually DID in Virginia? How about Arizona? They did have

If we were talking the West Indies, or Florida by itself, you would have a minor point. Very minor, since there is no Spanish influence in the US worth mentioning. They claimed California, but did little to actually settle it. At the time of the Gold Rush, the non-native population of California was a whopping 15,000. By 1854, it was over 300,000.

Want to explain again how Spain made America what it is?


34 posted on 12/11/2011 1:04:18 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Mr Rogers
Since I didn't say Spain made America what it is today I see no reason to explain it to you.

I said the American people CREATED THEMSELVES.

And that event has a starting point. Spain was certainly involved

You seem to be wanting to read something into this that's not there. But if you must know a fair number of my non-Hispanic ancestors were present in what is now the United States On or BEFORE 1598 ~ and they were very influential in what you see here today.

I absolutely despise it when immigrants fresh off the boat want to tell me all about America! Just complain and bicker, and tell us all about it. You don't like it, there are OTHER PLACES YOU CAN GO TO!

35 posted on 12/11/2011 1:11:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Mr Rogers
BTW, Daniel Boone received 1000 arpents of land at Arrow Rocks from the Spanish agent (near what is now St. Louis, or maybe across the river from Galena IL) and became a judge over a vast territory which Spain wished to develop by settling Americans.

You did know his wife was a Beeber (Bebier)~ while your people were cooling their heels in Lower Slobovia the Spanish prepared the primary survey for all of North America and began a number of local surveys in the Gulf (but not Florida in general). A little later (1700s) they definitely surveyed much of the Louisiana Territory. Their markers continue to be found everywhere. They kept POWs from their wars in the Mediterranean at St. Elena in Carolana (now South Carolina).

I have found over 50 towns in the Midwest and Central South that were laid out and settled by Spanish traders and miners BEFORE Jamestown became a reality.

The problem here was the place was immense ~ North America is far larger than South America, plus the plague that had been killing people by the millions in the South had already begun working its way through the North. By 1648 almost all the Eastern indians had died of it ~ most in a single winter. Whites and Africans died from the same diseases. Spain's population simply wasn't sufficient to supply the manpower needed for the purpose of civilizing this continent.

Now, let's see ~ what else did they do ~ well, since the overwhelming majority of the Spaniards in the Northern territories had Galician, Basque and Dutch surnames they were for all practical purpose undifferentiated from Bretons and Welsh or Dutch and French people. They simply stayed on as the ownership and control of territory changed.

i've found numerous examples of individuals with Spanish surnames being the very first to register land claims and purchases the day the government agent arrived in the Old Northwest to open up sales. They were there waiting to become part of the larger picture. If they'd waited around they'd been driven out as squatters or worse ~ been treated like the French in Vincinnes. They had a special exception written into the law but some of their land claims weren't settled with the US government and the state of Indiana until the mid 1800s.

Could be history didn't really notice Spanish settlers because they knew better than to create waves. They simply melted into the broad picture of "a new nation".

36 posted on 12/11/2011 1:28:42 PM PST by muawiyah
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