Posted on 12/08/2011 8:50:41 AM PST by tuffydoodle
ATHENS, Texas - The signs of Christmas are everywhere in downtown Athens.
Lights, trees, and Santa and his reindeer line the streets. But it's the nativity scene on the lawn at the county courthouse that has caused concern.
"I just don't understand it, to be honest with you," said Henderson County Judge Richard Sanders. "I'm just confused about it."
Sanders says residents haven't complained. The issues were brought up by the Freedom From Religion foundation, a Wisconsin non-profit group who sent a letter to the county this week, calling the display unconstitutional and demanding it come down.
"I'm an old country boy, you come to my house looking for a fight, you're going to get one," said County Commissioner Joe Hall. "That's from the bottom of my heart."
There's no confusing how Hall feels. He says the county isn't budging.
"We'll remove it when hell freezes over," Hall said. "It's not going to happen."
Henderson County doesn't own the nativity scene. It has been put up for more than a decade by volunteers from the Keep Athens Beautiful group.
Commissioners say they wouldn't object to other religious displays being put up on county property, but they've never been asked.
If it is open to all faiths, then the Freedom from Religion foundation tells News 8 it wants to put it's own sign at the courthouse. One that reads, in part, "That there is no God, no devils, no angels or heaven" and that, "Religion hardens the heart and enslaves minds."
It's happened before.
The same sign was put up at the capital building in Washington state back in 2008. The same group, the Freedom From Religion foundation, got it posted right next to another nativity scene. The sign brought out angry protesters there, and county officials believe it would bring out the same anger, having an outsider forcing their hand.
"I would be interested if a person from Henderson County approached me, wanting to put up something on the Henderson County Courthouse lawn," said Judge Sanders. "I don't want someone from Wisconsin asking us to do something."
Their hand may be forced for them.
The Supreme Court has ruled against nativity scenes on government property in the past, but it seems clear, it's a fight county officials are ready to take on.
"I ain't gonna back down," Hall said. "I haven't and I won't."
Hey, I’ll bring the popcorn!
Don’t mess with Texas.
I interviewed for a job in Athens about 4 years ago. I was offered the job and started house hunting in December. One of the first things I noticed was the nativity scene on the square and I thought “this is going to be a great place to live.” And it is!
Welcome! TX is awesome! We need all the good folks we can get. :D
I don’t understand it either, but those scum sucking yankee bastards came down here and tried to give us grief about the local town council saying a prayer to open up their meetings. They were told to eat excrement and bark at the moon. They eventually went away and the prayers continued.
I work in Athens...and just love the nativity scene every year. Wisconsin should mind their own backyard and leave ours alone!
Thanks.
It seems that if the Nativity is from ‘citizens’ then it’s display is allowed.
As with all of the ‘wrong’ rulings on religion, they seem to forget there are two (2) parts to the First Amendment.
’ or the free exercise thereof’ never seems to be a part of their ‘interpretation’.
Excellent reference....Thank you Doe Eyes
Religious Displays and
the Courts: Significant
Supreme Court Ruling
Stone v. Graham (1980)
The court ruled that a Kentucky statute requiring
public schools to post a copy of the Ten Commandments in every classroom was unconstitutional.
Lynch v. Donnelly (1984)
The court ruled that a Pawtucket, R.I., Christmas display, which included a crèche as well as more secular
symbols of Christmas, such as a Santa Claus and
reindeer, was permissible.
County of Allegheny v. ACLU (1989)
The court struck down a Christmas crèche displayed
alone inside a courthouse in Pittsburgh, Pa., but upheld
the same city’s broader holiday display that included a
Christmas tree and menorah.
Capitol Square Review Board v. Pinette (1995)
The court ruled that Ohio officials were wrong to
deny the Ku Klux Klan the right to place a large cross
on a public plaza where displays by private citizens
were permitted.
McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky (2005)
The court ruled that the placement of framed copies
of the Ten Commandments in courthouses in two
Kentucky counties was unconstitutional.
Van Orden v. Perry (2005)
The court ruled that a monument inscribed with the
Ten Commandments on the Texas state Capitol
grounds was permissible.
I like his grit.
“I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the state over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation.” —George Washington, circular letter of farewell to the Army, 1783
“It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.” —John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
“I have lived, sir, a long time; and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?” —Benjamin Franklin, Motion for Prayers in the Constitutional Convention, 1787
I like that response! I can't wait to try it out ;-)
I read where the local Christian community is going to hold a pro-Nativity scene rally there in Athens on the 17th.
Thinking I may bring some others along and join in. :)
And to think, Athens was known in the ‘80’s as having a problem with devil worshiping. Glad to know they’re changing that reputation for a better one.
Only 30 miles away, I’ll pay $30 to join in, on Athen’s side o’course.
Yankees.
What I don’t understand is that it is a county court house, not federal. Seems to me it would be a state issue to deal with. (see tag line)
I’m an avowed, lifelong atheist who has no objection at all to the placement of this nativity scene display.
The first rule a county should pass is that all requests for items be submitted 6 months in advance, by a legal resident, and secured with a bond.
That should keep at least some of these outside groups at bay.
Then they should reject any items with text messages, limiting displays to scenic items. And require that the scenic items be appropriate for children.
If the atheists can think of something they could display that would get “their” message across under those circumstances, more power to them. The Manger means nothing to people who don’t believe, it’s just a feel-good item for those who do.
I don’t mind if atheists, jews, or even muslims put up things that make THEM feel good without attacking others.
Here's there "Honorary Board members, including Ron Reagan from MSNBC: Freedom From Religion honorary Board Members
If they have Freedom FROM Religion, then we have FReedom of speech!!!! Let them know you won't buy their products, read their books, watch their shows. Not because they're athiests, but because they're ATTACKING our beliefs!
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